Nothing scientific, but:

My headlights seem brighter
My handling got better
My brakes are stronger
And my engine is stronger

Okay, only the last one is true. But the key word is TRUE.

The upgrade went exactly as advertised and took 5 or 6 minutes once I had gone over the instructions twice.

Test drove (to work) up the Garden State Parkway this morning. There is absolutely no doubt about it, the thing works. If you liked 3rd gear before, wait 'til you try it now. And 4th gear feels like 3rd used to.

The boost needle goes at least half way into the red (did it go that far before?).

The car is STRONG.

More later.

Awesome news.. keep us posted as it breaks in.. how are the lower gears now? I know mine bottoms out a bit too quick in 1st and 2nd.. any better now?

thanks for posting your experience iceben. we were all anxious to hear REAL results. now i can be totally confident in persuing the 9-3. hopefully by time i get one there will be a stage 2/3, i would love to see it get up to 260-280(might be the limit for a FWD vehicle).

i'll have my vector by the end of summer. unless one shows up at the auction sooner

can you revert back to the old ECU if you need to bring the car in for warranty work?

thanks for posting your experience iceben. we were all anxious to hear REAL results. now i can be totally confident in persuing the 9-3. hopefully by time i get one there will be a stage 2/3, i would love to see it get up to 260-280(might be the limit for a FWD vehicle).

i'll have my vector by the end of summer. unless one shows up at the auction sooner

can you revert back to the old ECU if you need to bring the car in for warranty work?


260-280 is not that much for a 4 banger. In the DSM (Eclipse/Talon) group I was in we had several cars that were over 400bHp. The 2.0 on those cars are rock solid.[/b]

i'm not talking about the engine capabilities, i'm talking about the handling. (FWD, front wheel drive)


having driven the new TL on a daily basis. i realize that for that vehicle. anymore power and you would not have the great handling that it currently has.

although i believe the 9-3 handles the best out of all of the FWD cars, it also lacks the get up and go feeling that you get from a car like a TL. plus it doesn't seem as quiet or smooth as the TL (b/c of the 3.2V6) that's not a bad thing, b/c i like the saab tbo charged engines, that's what turned me on to the brand. i along with many other people have always associated saab w/ turbo charging.

glad that it works great! thanks for the update...

i'm not talking about the engine capabilities, i'm talking about the handling. (FWD, front wheel drive).

If you have that much power, you need to invest in a LSD anyway. That should take care of most of the problems.

I have a question, did you lose any Tech II settings (like RoW or Aux)? I wouldn't think that this would affect it, but you never know.

you guys getting this ppc upgrade investing in gauges to monitor this activity in the car?

a guy I know here has a older 93 hatch and got the ppc upgrade and just recently blew a valve... :o his timing was all off.

not saying this for the 93 SS though, but I would reccomend some gauges.

These are good news iceben!!!!!
Do you have the "t" or the "T"?????

:oops: :oops:
Sorry man.....I just noticed tour avatar.... :D :D :wink:
Keep on giving inf about the ppc... :D

Congratulations and Kudos for the reviews! Keep 'em coming guys! Man, I need my tax returns quick so I can get one too :cheesy:

Great news iceben!

Can you give any comments about the turbo lag (time you plant your foot down to car movement)?
Is it better or worse from a stop?

I'm very encouraged by your report!

I'm still gently learning about my new engine.

Haven't tried a 0-60 time yet. Have stop watch, will try one tomorrow. Got to be way better.

I'd say the power to weight is now up in the same league as two of my other favorite cars; my Grand Prix GTP (supercharged 3.8L 6 cyl.) and my first year SHO.

Have noticed some additional torgue steer, but it's manageable. As far as lag goes, I use the paddles to keep the rpm's up anyway so I never had much lag. Don't notice any additional.

Also, have not seen any adverse affects on any other systems. No warning, no engine idle change, no stalling, nothing bad. Did get a traction control fail during "tuning", as they call the upload process. But the instructions say that some functions will be shut off during the process, and I guess that's one.

To answer someone's question, yes you can put the original program back in before going to the dealer.

That's it for now from this very satisfied customer. Haven't we all had that feeling from time to time that something we bought wasn't as good as we expected? Well, this AINT one of those times!

That's it for now from this very satisfied customer. Haven't we all had that feeling from time to time that something we bought wasn't as good as we expected? Well, this AINT one of those times!

I couldn't agree more with iceben :P This is one time where the bang-for-buck quotient is very high. Loved the car before and now I get a giddy feeling just thinking about driving tommorrow :wink: Guys the car pulls hard no matter what gear and speed. Remember what a dog the 6m is in 6th below 70-80 mph. Well casual passes are a breeze now without shifting down 8) More after a weekend of twisty driving :D

I just thought of something, whenever the dealer has upgraded the software on my car, the oil life gets set back 100%. Have you checked the oil life remaining on yours. Just curious, I plan on getting the PPC soon.
Thanks

I just thought of something too. How's gas milage? MPG?

Any before and after reviews for auto tranny?

I thought I read somewhere on this site that the PPC upgrade resets the computer "oil life". Has anyone else heard the same? If so, let me know because I just did the PPC upgrade (love it) but if I need to I want to get the oil changed soon.

Iceben,

I would really appreciate it after the learning process giving us some detailed review about the power delivery especially 1st and 2nd gear and the top end range of those gears too. thanks in advance.

So far I have been careful about gears 1 and 2 with my new found power. 1st gets used up so quickly and I'm generally shifting manually (with the paddles), I'm afraid I'll over rev. I'll give it a try tomorrow. I also plan on a 0-60 run. I use a stopwatch. Not as accurate as some more scientific methods, but it should give a good idea of the improvement anyway.

No doubt about it though, the car has gone from nice to serious.

It seems like everyone who purchased the PPC is satisfied. I think a lot so i have a concern. What if you install the PPC and SOMETHING (ANYTHING) goes wrong in the car and you have to take back to the dealer but considering something is wrong with the car, you cant restore factory settings. What the hell happens then? We loose warranty? Can anyone comment?

It seems like everyone who purchased the PPC is satisfied. I think a lot so i have a concern. What if you install the PPC and SOMETHING (ANYTHING) goes wrong in the car and you have to take back to the dealer but considering something is wrong with the car, you cant restore factory settings. What the hell happens then? We loose warranty? Can anyone comment?

Yup. If the dealership looks at the car and can tell that the ECU has been messed with, the warranty is gone. They will blame on problem on you tampering with the ECU and will not fix your car under warranty. Its the risk you have to take for such performance upgrades.

it should only void the the warranty related to the drivetrain/engine right? or they strip the whole new car warranty from you?

I am not a lawyer but I believe they have to prove that the ECU upgrade caused the problem. That said, if it is proven, it should only void the warrany related to the engine/drive train, not the anything else. That is my understanding anyway.

Also, you should note that the benefit of the PPC upgrade is that you can revert back to the factory settings. That is the main reason I chose the PPC over any of the other products manufactured.

that soubds good. i was going to get the Stongard for the vector..but i think i'll get the ppc and add a couple more
hundred bucks for the ecu upgrade.. oh well... priorities..:)

i'm not talking about the engine capabilities, i'm talking about the handling. (FWD, front wheel drive).

If you have that much power, you need to invest in a LSD anyway. That should take care of most of the problems.

I have a question, did you lose any Tech II settings (like RoW or Aux)? I wouldn't think that this would affect it, but you never know.

Actually on the Acura TL, C/D and/or MotorTrend reviewers said the LSD made the problem worse on the 6 speed model which has that.

Actually on the Acura TL, C/D and/or MotorTrend reviewers said the LSD made the problem worse on the 6 speed model which has that.

That depends on whether the LSD is passive or active. An active LSD will distribute equal power to both wheels at the same time. This makes the car much more predictable when you put the petal down. If it is passive, the LSD will only engage during spinouts. The only LSD I have seen so far for the SS is an active one, so I can't see anything but good with replacing the front dif.

Still waiting to hear more reviews and feedback. I saw the unit for the 2.0t for about $850 on the partsforsaabs site, but not sure what the BS fees and shipping would be.

I'm surprised nobody has done a 0-60mph and 1/4 mi time comparison yet. I would think the BSR guys at least would do this as a sales aid. With the availability of the Bel X1 for about $160, I would think more guys would have the ability to do their own times.

Once the track is open again (Spring) im gonna do some 1/4 mile runs stock before i get the PPC.. see how much difference she makes.

I'm sorry guys, I'm a bit out of it, but what is a PPC, and from the sounds of this thread, where can I get one and how much does it cost?

I'd love to add a little power.

I'm sorry guys, I'm a bit out of it, but what is a PPC, and from the sounds of this thread, where can I get one and how much does it cost?

I'd love to add a little power.
http://www.partsforsaabs.com/default.php?cPath=28_270_353

I had a Gtech and loant it to a friend, seat of the pants I'd say about a second differnce in the quarter mile time, mainly due to the increase in boost in 1 and 2nd gears. They also did some calibration of the stability control, because it no longer intrudes during spirited driving, as a matter of fact when I was doing the upload I got a stability system failure message, no worries though it all cleared up when I started the car. I have 19inch tyres (235 wide) and if I roll in first gear when the boost comes on nothing but wheel spin.

I had a Gtech and loant it to a friend, seat of the pants I'd say about a second differnce in the quarter mile time, mainly due to the increase in boost in 1 and 2nd gears. They also did some calibration of the stability control, because it no longer intrudes during spirited driving, as a matter of fact when I was doing the upload I got a stability system failure message, no worries though it all cleared up when I started the car. I have 19inch tyres (235 wide) and if I roll in first gear when the boost comes on nothing but wheel spin.

These error messages that is being reported by PPC users (such as yourself) is worrisome to me. Even though the message cleared up, but I believe these error codes are stored in the ECU, and detectable by the service tech with the Tech II. When my car electrical system was not properly disconnected during a serivce work by a shop, even though the codes kind of cleared up, it still showed up to the dealer.

My bimmer 330i, which had many instances when the check engine error icon came up and cleared away by itself permanaently, the dealer was still able to track it as a error code stored during the time it occurred.

Has anyone considered this?

The non-modded ECU shows error message all the time! :cheesy:

Alright you guys, it has been done. I recieved the PPC today and went straight to the car. Man, the car pulls like a freakin beast now. Turbo lag has definately decreased, but still noticable. Currently, my favorite gear is 2nd. To be honest with you, i am still a little bit worried about this thing as the turbo gauge now reaches the 2nd level into the red zone. I dont know if any of you guys who PPC'd your cars got this feeling of worry, but i am and will be for a little while. While i was installing it, it read "erasing flash" on the PPC monitor. I wonder what the heck that is! The difference between the power before and after is DEFINATELY noticable. I love it and i am very happy with it. I think its the best thing i ever spent my money on. It took me about 7 minutes to tune the car, as promised considering they said approximately 6 minutes. If any of you are still debating whether to buy it or not, i recommed it. I feel like i have a god damn powerful car. Any comments about my worries?

I think it's normal for the turbo gauge to go in the red area.
If I'm not mistaken,just before the red lines,the pressure sould be 0.85 bar for the T and 0.60(?) for the t.Now with the upgrade,the pressure is higher and the car shows it... :wink:
That's why I want to put a normal gauge in the car,so to see the pressure and not green and red lines.

i wonder how much pressure the Mitsubishi turbo (2.0T) can hold before overboosting or something going terribly wrong?

i wonder how much pressure the Mitsubishi turbo (2.0T) can hold before overboosting or something going terribly wrong?

On the stock talon/Eclipse the boost is 7-9 psi and has a smaller turbo than ours. Their turbo can handle 15-16psi safely, ofcourse thier 2.0 is a pretty tough motor and can handle over 300hp.

i wonder how much pressure the Mitsubishi turbo (2.0T) can hold before overboosting or something going terribly wrong?

On the stock talon/Eclipse the boost is 7-9 psi and has a smaller turbo than ours. Their turbo can handle 15-16psi safely, ofcourse thier 2.0 is a pretty tough motor and can handle over 300hp.

So how much boost does our turbo produce at stock (2.0T) and how much can it handle?

The Garrett Turbo catalogue dares (2.0t) owners to increase the boost on the turbos "it can take it" they claim in their catalogue. The GT2052S is suitable for cars in the 140-260 hp range. Can't find anything on boost, but I think it will cope easily with the BSR gains.

Saba,

Is it also a Garret turbo on the 2.0T engines? Sorry i didnt totally understand your previous post! And when you said that the turbo could easily take the BSR gains, were you refering to the 2.0T or the 2.0t or both?

Only the 2.0t (and lower) uses the garret

ok so what kind of a turbo charger does the 2.0T use?

ok so what kind of a turbo charger does the 2.0T use?

Mitsubishi

ok so what kind of a turbo charger does the 2.0T use?

the 2.0T uses the TD04 turbo (mitsubishi).

I found this graph on the TD04, can anyone interpret?


This is what was written under it:

"The Standard TD04 turbocharger installed on the WRX is well matched to the required power output of the stock WRX. At 220 hp - 230 hp and around 13 psi of boost pressure, the TD04 is within its limits and with the potential to supply enough air to produce 280 hp.

Typical of any turbocharger, as boost pressure is increased past the point where peak air flow is produced (at around 19 psi of boost pressure), air flow, hence horsepower decreases."

So if the Garrett turbo in the 2.0t is good for 140-260 hp cars, then why did Saab but the Mitsu unit in the 2.0T ? The smaller turbo will always have the better spool-up, as many people who have copared Linears vs Arc/Vector/Aero have noted. My only guess is that they were planning a software only upgrade to more hp later in the model's lifetime that would exceed the usable range of the Garrett. Strange....

Think I answered my own question after looking at the graph SS posted. The compressor efficiency drops below the recommended 70% number if the turbo is pushed above certain limits. Compressor efficiency translates into heat load on the input charge air. At low efficiency, a lot of energy goes into heating the air during compression, which leads to knock etc. unless the IC is increased in size, water injection is added etc.

So if the Garrett turbo in the 2.0t is good for 140-260 hp cars, then why did Saab but the Mitsu unit in the 2.0T ? The smaller turbo will always have the better spool-up, as many people who have copared Linears vs Arc/Vector/Aero have noted. My only guess is that they were planning a software only upgrade to more hp later in the model's lifetime that would exceed the usable range of the Garrett. Strange....

You never want to equip a part that can easily be stretched to its limits. The smaller turbo may spool up faster, but you get much more top end with a larger turbo.

Boost settings on all the turbos in the 9-3SS.

1.8t (Garrett) = 0.5 bars, 7.25psi
2.0t (Garrett) = 0.75 bars, 10.9 psi
2.0T (Mitsu) = 0.85 bars, 12.3 psi

Right, so from the compressor map posted above it looks like the 2.0T turbo is designed to run at about 70% efficiency or better. That's the right figure of merit most turbo designers aim for at the top end. So you can see why it becomes tricky to add more hp, since at higher boosts, the compressor is generating more heat as it runs at less efficiency.

This is where water injection can be helpful, but there has always been some debate over whether T7 and T8 cars can work well with water injection or not. Abbott says no on their site, others say it should be fine.

Right, so from the compressor map posted above it looks like the 2.0T turbo is designed to run at about 70% efficiency or better. That's the right figure of merit most turbo designers aim for at the top end. So you can see why it becomes tricky to add more hp, since at higher boosts, the compressor is generating more heat as it runs at less efficiency.

And the Garrett GT20 on the 2.0t runs at about 66% efficiency.

So according to the graph, you guys are basically saying that the Mitsubishi turbocharger can handle the extra power provided by the PPC?

AND

How much PSI do you guys think the mitsu turbo is producing now, after the PPC?

Any sites in the states where i can purchase from?
and if so,how much?

Genuine Saab

http://www.genuinesaab.com/detail.asp?product_id=PPC

Its currently running for 915$ A pretty good price i presume

Parts for Saab has BSR PPC for about $855 US dollars inc. shipping and they shipped it to me in 5 days.

Parts for Saab has BSR PPC for about $855 US dollars inc. shipping and they shipped it to me in 5 days.

You didnt pay custom duties?

Parts for Saab has BSR PPC for about $855 US dollars inc. shipping and they shipped it to me in 5 days.

You didnt pay custom duties?

I doubt he did, I've never had to pay duty on anything from PFS.

Just so you all know, I ordered my PPC for my Linear on Sunday. On Monday I received an email from PFS saying that minor hardware modifications were being made by BSR and so the new batch of systems would not ship till Friday. WOnder what those changes are ?

Can't wait. Already got my log in code to the PPC site from BSR.

No I did not have to pay any custom fees. I also am waiting for the "hardware upgrade". Can't wait, I have had so much fun driving the convertible around. It is like summer here in los Angeles and I put the top down all the time. Sorry for you folks in more severe climates.

Was JUST about to purchase the part when THE questions popped up in my head. Is there ANY chance that my car will get screwed up with this install? Like for instance, is the part safe for the turbo, transmission, ECU, etc???

JUST making sure before I proceed with the order.

Hmm, what better place to add this than to the end of a long post topic anyway...

Anyone do the PPC update on the 5SP Auto 2.0T yet? I've just had my first service about 500 miles ago, and have literally parked the car in the garage until I can line up some dyno time & track time before I do the upgrade. I want to get some "real" before and afters.

Sorry if I'm too lazy to do the search .. but .. ;-)

hey Matt, good to see ya back. Can't help with the 5 spd Auto 2.0T, but I have just ordered mine for the 2.0t. I did a dyno run a couple of weeks ago and will do another one about a week after I have the PPC installed.

^ what was it again, like 145 hp at the wheel on the linear?

yep 145. So if the PPC lives up to its claim of 29 hp for the 2.0t then I should expect 174hp at the wheel. I don't expect any further drivetrain loss with the upgrade because drivetrain loss is due to friction and inertia in the transmission. As none of that is changing then there should be no additional drive train loss. Is my reasoning correct?

^ SO, if all the factors are the same that would mean 211 HP at the wheel for the Arcs and Vectors... if its about the same.

^ SO, if all the factors are the same that would mean 211 HP at the wheel for the Arcs and Vectors... if its about the same. Depends on your type of tranny. Mine is a 5 speed manual, probably the tranny with lease drivetrain loss.