Saturn Swipes Saab Parts and Slow Imprezas!!!!! [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Saturn Swipes Saab Parts and Slow Imprezas!!!!!


bkrell
24th February 2004, 09:11 AM
Well, GM's new little econorocket, the Saturn Ion Redline got a little help from it's friends! :oops: According to Road and Track, the engine is the Saab block (used to handle the supercharger boost) and the 5 speed is striaght out of the 9-3, also! If you look at a picture of the cockpit, the shifter looks exactly like the 9-3 unit!!! They didn't even disguise it! It even looks like it has reverse lockout! Man, Saab's getting it going and coming! :roll: Sadly, the little Saturn spanks a 9-3 in 0-60 and 1/4 mile. However, the hp is similar. Where's that Viggen?

I also investigated our soon to be Saabed Impreza. Man, the wagon version Road and Track tested is more than a second slower to 60 than the sedan (6.8 seconds verses 5.4)!

CosmicSaab
26th February 2004, 05:47 PM
They are using the Saab shifter but the 9-3 block was part of the EcoTec family to begin with, they didn't swipe it. So they used our shifter, it's not like it was the greatest shifter to begin with. Once we get some good ****ers then I'll get annoied if Saturn gets 'em, until then...

bkrell
27th February 2004, 09:25 AM
It's not just that they used the block, they used the same internals, too. The special work done to the mechanicals to handle the boost. I mean, yeah, GM gave Saab a block. Saab took it, though, and turned it into something much better. Then GM said "Thanks very much!" and put the modified block in a Saturn. And yeah, I know that Saab transmissions aren't the best, but what I am saying is look at the picture of the shifter in the Saturn! GM didn't even try and disguise it or make it look "Saturn-y." It physically looks like someone just pulled the thing out of a Saab! Next thing you know, they'll make Saab use those goofy blistered-looking Pontiac buttons all over the place!

Licence
27th February 2004, 01:33 PM
The Cadillac CTS looks like it uses SAABs joystick air vents as well.

bkrell
29th February 2004, 01:19 AM
Not that I like cadillac, but I "think" that they have had their vents like that for a while. Not sure though. It wouldn't suprise me. :roll:

CosmicSaab
29th February 2004, 12:23 PM
From what I understand Saab's version of the EcoTec is not as strong as GMs version. And you know something else? Saab is part of GM now. That means parts sharing in both directions. Saturn and GM have done nothing wrong, they have cut costs and used their resources. Everything Saab does comes out of GM's pocket now, that means that GM gets to use whatever they want to use of Saab's. I guess you will be really unhappy to know that Caddy is going to give the 9-3 a rebody and sell it in Europe under the Cadillac name, huh? They are going to build it in the Saab factory too. :roll:

bkrell
29th February 2004, 02:17 PM
Calm down, I am not ardent Saab defender. I just think GM is being too transparent about the whole thing. If GM's version of the Ecotec is better, why wouldn't they put it in the Saturn. No, Saab imporoved the engine to handle higher compression, so GM took it to use in the Saturn.

Licence
29th February 2004, 03:06 PM
I think if this is stage one, leading up to all GM cars using common platforms and engines, then as long as it ends up as well done as VW group (VW Golf MK4, VW Bora, Audi A3 Mk1, Audi TT, Seat Leon, Seat Cordoba and Skoda Octavia all use the same platform and mix of components) then it should be a great future.
If the chassis is designed to the highest level then things should be good.
The problems start when a chassis for a car designed to compete in a lower market (and designed to that level) is adapted for use in a car that has to compete with cars from a higher level (for example SAAB having to use the Mk 3 Cavalier chassis for the NG900/9-3 Mk1).
Saturn and Vauxhall using a SAAB designed (partly) chassis could be good (better Saturns/Vauxhalls and a new customer base from the Saturn drivers who want to move up, like Skoda drivers move up to VW and VW drivers up to Audi) so long as GM don't muck it up.

CosmicSaab
29th February 2004, 04:10 PM
Calm down, I am not ardent Saab defender. I just think GM is being too transparent about the whole thing. If GM's version of the Ecotec is better, why wouldn't they put it in the Saturn. No, Saab imporoved the engine to handle higher compression, so GM took it to use in the Saturn.

GM's version of the EcoTec is stronger, it can handle more power than Saab's version. Saab's just happens to be forced induction ready. And how many people are actually going to know the tranny from in the Ion Red Line is the same one that Saab uses? Do you really think prople looking at Saturns are also going to be looking at Saabs and vise versa? And personally I wish GM had just taken the 5 speed unit (and the 6 speed) from Saab and told then never to use it again! Saab should just use a Honda unit. They make 5 and 6 speed sticks that can handle the power and torque, and they are "snick, snick", unlike a Saab shifter.

bkrell
29th February 2004, 08:51 PM
and GM's version of the EcoTec is stronger, it can handle more power than Saab's version. Saab's just happens to be forced induction ready.

What are you talking about? I wish you would explain this! All I am saying is GM is using Saab's alterations, which Saab did to make the Ecotec better. No joke that forced induction engines are different. And, I think that's my point.

CosmicSaab
1st March 2004, 02:30 PM
and GM's version of the EcoTec is stronger, it can handle more power than Saab's version. Saab's just happens to be forced induction ready.

I wish you would explain this! All I am saying is GM is using Saab's alterations, which Saab did to make the Ecotec better. No joke that forced induction engines are different. And, I think that's my point.


Huh? I drive a Saab 9-3. And the standard Ecotec can handle more power before modifications have do be done, I remember reading something about it being able to take up to 750 hp before it needs to be sleeved. The standard ecotec is not FI reday though and that is whay Saturn used it. And there is no similarity between the 9-3 SS and the Malibu. They share a platform and that's it.

bkrell
1st March 2004, 07:56 PM
Although GM calls it an Ecotec, the Redline's 2.0 -liter engine is actually based on the aluminum long-block of the Saab 9-3, a twincam inline-4 with oil-cooled pistons and sodium-filled valves to help it cope with 12 psi of intercooled boost...

taken from Road and Track-March 2004, First Drive, Saturn Ion Redline, page 42.

As I said, GM took Saab's improvements and threw them in the Saturn. This bothers me. Sorry if it doesn't you.

And no kidding, the Malibu and the 9-3 aren't the same car???

CosmicSaab
1st March 2004, 09:08 PM
Although GM calls it an Ecotec, the Redline's 2.0 -liter engine is actually based on the aluminum long-block of the Saab 9-3, a twincam inline-4 with oil-cooled pistons and sodium-filled valves to help it cope with 12 psi of intercooled boost...

taken from Road and Track-March 2004, First Drive, Saturn Ion Redline, page 42.

As I said, GM took Saab's improvements and threw them in the Saturn. This bothers me. Sorry if it doesn't you.

And no kidding, the Malibu and the 9-3 aren't the same car???


Oh, we all know I'm a really big dumbass already, that was determined a long, long, long time ago. No sense in trying to hide it now. :wink:

Saab did the mods to the Ecotec using GM's $$$. Yes it is a Saab design, but do you really want Saturn to give Saab credit for it? I am not denying that Saab's version has had modifications to handle boost. I am not able to explain what I mean by weaker, I never have been good at explaining things.

CosmicSaab
1st March 2004, 09:10 PM
And oh yeah, I just get really annoied when people say things like "the 9-3 is just a rebadged Malibu." I have heard it so many times that I tend to get really hostile, and that hostilitiy was unrelated to the discussion about the engine.

bkrell
1st March 2004, 09:53 PM
Oh, I didn't know that was a common swipe at the 9-3. No, you should see the Car and Driver rip of the Malibu. They make sure to note that GM definately "Americanized" the epsilon platform and that this was no Saab. Look, I live in a GM town and I am all for keeping Saab alive any way possible. I just hate seeing GM taking an engine the Saab division worked hard on and throwing it in a Saturn. It's great to see a boosted Saturn, don't get me wrong. But it's sadthat GM needs Saab's help. Engines are GM's weak point. As for watching the thread, I couldn't resist. Sorry, didn't mean to touch a nerve. We don't drive Malibus! :cheesy:

20Ted
1st March 2004, 11:01 PM
Hey guys - chill. The thread is going to get locked (and parts of it probably edited)...

fabric
2nd March 2004, 01:13 PM
Oh, I didn't know that was a common swipe at the 9-3. No, you should see the Car and Driver rip of the Malibu. They make sure to note that GM definately "Americanized" the epsilon platform and that this was no Saab.

yeah, they americanized the sedan, but apparently the Malibu Maxx (the hatcback thingy) has a more European tune to the suspension. I had high hopes for it going into the Chicago Auto show, but one sit in it and I was mortified. What a piece of junk. When will GM get it's act together in regards to interiors.

Oh yeah, then I sat in a Buick something or other. It had buttons I saw in a mid 80's Buick. It was crap then, it's crap now. Do people really like these interiors? Blech.

bkrell
14th March 2004, 01:39 AM
Fabric said:Oh yeah, then I sat in a Buick something or other. It had buttons I saw in a mid 80's Buick. It was cr*p then, it's cr*p now. Do people really like these interiors? Blech.

I hear a lot of people over 65 really like them!!! They should just pre-wire the left blinker to stay on!!! :cheesy:

CosmicSaab
14th March 2004, 11:00 AM
Fabric said:Oh yeah, then I sat in a Buick something or other. It had buttons I saw in a mid 80's Buick. It was cr*p then, it's cr*p now. Do people really like these interiors? Blech.

I hear a lot of people over 65 really like them!!! They should just pre-wire the left blinker to stay on!!! :cheesy:

it's because they are so quiet and you can't feel anything throught the suspension, it's like you are floating. That could explain why I don't like them.

Saabian
19th March 2004, 02:52 AM
Parts sharing only works if the branches that are sharing it are equally as strong. Too bad Saabs are good and pretty much everything else from GM for the most part SUCKS. I hate American cars. I feel so ashamed that my old 900 has something in common with my grandparent's Chevy S-10. Although, as far as pick-ups go, it's not TOO bad.

-Ian

john-w
19th March 2004, 03:36 AM
I think this thread has reached a point where it's better to lock it rather than flame any more members :roll: :roll: :roll:

Thread locked