: Garrett T3 vs Mitsui TE-05, i stand corrected!!!!
16-05-02, 06:08 AM
After rebuilding my Garrett T3 i got round to fitting it yesterday afternoon and took the Mitsubishi off.
When i firsst put the Mitsubishi on i was not exactly impressed with the comments about quicker spool up, better drivability etc etc..........
Well yesterday i got in the car and drove down the road to check everything was alright with the new turbo,
I put my foot down.............................................. .....................then i started to accelerate!!, the difference really is night and day in spool up, it felt like a different car low down! llaaaaaaaggggg!!
The top end's a different matter though as the Garrett comes into its own over 1bar where its really solid.
I really dont know how i could have originally said that i didnt think there was much in it between the two, maybe i hadnt had the car long enough before the swap? and the back to back test highlighted this.
So its humble pie for me guys- I stand corrected.
Give me a compromise between the Garrett when your really in the mood and the Mitsu when your not!.
16-05-02, 08:38 AM
Yep - it's night and day!
I have experienced a progression of drivability (with I must say a decrease in the fun factor) in my Saab ownership which I reckon followed Saabs development. First was a 99T - loads of sudden power but only when you were near 3000rpm, then APC T8 - power leap at about 2600 which quickly trailed off above 4000rpm and a bit more life off boost, 85T16 much smoothed out on/ off boost transition but more top end to play with right up to red line. At present 91T16 ( Mitsubishi) - virtualy no lag and power from 1800rpm high rpm boost is slightly less 'urgent' but acceptable as a trade off for low end drivability. I would say very close to a seamless power curve - ( helped by some mods to fueling and timing)very drivable but missing the fun of a boost surge. In the end - as I'm not such a 'tear ***' these days I much prefer it - you don't get gaught out having no power off boost and driving round town and in urban areas is much easier. I can still get it to peg 1/2 in the red for short bursts to overtake etc and you don't have to change down most of the time to do it - floor it in 5th at 50 (such as when you are comming out of roadworks on the M-way) and it pulls away very strongly and is up to 90 in a very short time. Pete - (if you haven't done already) try and get your initial ignition setting up to 18-20 deg - this may take some of the off boots lethargy away - if it does -bend the stop tab out to get the same retard as before).
Get caught out off boost? You should try it in an auto, get it wrong and it can take an age to get up a hill!
But the boost on mine (T3) holds strong right up to the redline and thats with the pots set more or less factory.
16-05-02, 09:56 AM
Yeah - but you can still have some fun in kickdown once you are moving!
You could always get yourself a ball-bearing turbo next. Much lower boost threshold is available but slightly on the pricey side.
How successful was the rebuild? Any sign of imbalance problems? e.g. more noise when boosting.
16-05-02, 12:42 PM
Everything seems rosey!!!,
I get some turbo whistle as she spools up but then i have been driving with the window down!!!.
I think by design the Garrett is slightly noisier than the Mitsui as the compressor is obviously larger.
Im sure that after a few thousand miles of carbon deposits sticking to the turbine blades that the original balance would be out to some degree or other?
I think my 8v is in need of a Mitsubishi so shall i look at steam and spares or is yours up for grabs??
16-05-02, 04:49 PM
John W, I just thought to mention, I have a T8 with Mitsubishi TE-05, and it's a great combination.
As the 8V engine has slightly lower engine revs for max power and torque, you will improve boost characteristics even more in a T8 than in a T16, when you switch to Mitsu turbo.
My current T8 is much more civilized than my old T8 with T03 turbo - the difference really is quite noticeable.
Thats what I thought, also the 8v has 40mm trim where the t16s have 45mmm, so with the mitsu i should be getting additional improvement as well!!
Don't know the results yet but i know for sure of one guy in Aus gettin his (standard T3) garret ball bearinged and uprated compressor cover as we speak.....
Will have a report in a couple of weeks....
I agree with what others have said. In my case the early boost characteristics of the TE05 outweights its lack of ability at the top of the range.
John, I drove your car a while ago and although you have a wonderful car I really noticed how long it took to to get on full boost compared with mine. I really think the TE05 would make a big difference.
17-05-02, 07:38 AM
This takes me back a few years when I lived up in the Midlands - a dealer/mechanic I knew let me have a go in an old T8 he had just got in - it had previously belonged to the Beechdale Saab race team and had been used as a pace car. It was an absolute hoot to drive as the boost came in under 2k rpm!
We had a look under the bonnet and there was a strange looking turbo and no APC - just a adjustable pressure valve to the actuator. Must have been a Mitsubishi they had put in it looking back now. Not wanting to dis 8v's but (in stock form) they run out of puff well before 16v's when the revs get high so there's no real reason to stick with a Garrett that is designed for higher RPM power - a Mitsubishi would be, as Alan says, a major improvement.
17-05-02, 11:10 AM
Ive said that BIG John can have the Mitsui, the only problem is that Motorsport developments dont do a rebuild kit for them only a complete core.
John's going to get a price for it and let me know...........
18-05-02, 01:58 PM
How about upgrading the Mitsubishi TE-05 turbocharger - any changes here?
The TE-05 is small, I was wondering if there's room in the turbine housing for a bigger turbine wheel... The compressor housing could be changed completely, so that's not a problem I guess.
I doubt that upgrading the Mitsu turbo will really be worth while. You love it for its response and most upgrades will lessen its response.
There is also a lack of aftermarket support for these turbos and are hard to find a rebuilder for them (in Aus anyway..)
However some of the EVO lancers used a type of t-05, the compressor and exhaust covers on these might be able to be fitted to give more topend power, the sacrifice will be bottom end though.....
Eric van Spelde
19-05-02, 01:14 AM
Well - according to the more knowledgeable guys on TSN Performance BB (the S/N ratio on that board may be rather high, but there are true gems to be found there if you look hard enough) the TE05 has a superior wastegate design to the old T3 - and beyond a certain state of tune exhaust backpressure is your worst enemy. Some maintain that with the T3 at some point, they saw as high as 2.7 psi for every pound of boost! I don't need a lot of imagination to see what that does for exhaust gas temps... A few of these guys are running Deltagate external wastegates now. Must say I've given the matter not much thought on Project Saabine, yet.
Anyways, they say a '16G' compressor wheel (stock compressor on the 900 is a '12B') in a correspondingly machined out housing would be just the ticket for supporting ~300 hp. Doing so would add about $250 to the bill of a rebuild, not too bad if you ask me.
Well guys I will let you know my findings on the Mitsubishi vs Garrett later today, the mitsu I got from Steam & Spares is sitting waiting to be fitted on my 8V!
Not fitted yet John? What have you been doing with all that spare time? :smile: