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: Saabrina


M.Whiterabbit
23rd August 2011, 01:20 AM
Hello,

I figured I would start a project thread to keep everything in one place. As previously stated in this thread (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216975) I am looking for a primary casing.

My transmission is starting to go bad due to abuse. I didn't know how to drive Saabrina when I first got her but now I do but its not enough and she needs a replacement trans soon. Rather than going stock I decided to try something different. Since my Father in Law is in the CORE business he was able to score me a working 4 speed Ford Top Loader (http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/cutawayview.htm) for $50 and I got the differential from a C5 Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_%28C5%29) for not much more. The way I figure it is that even with the extra fabrication it will be cheaper or close enough that it will be worth the extra effort to make this work. This is not really too much of a pipe dream because it has been done before (http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,314946,315148,quote=1) in a different fashion.

So I am going to do some slow progress but am going to rely on the community to offer some tips and help. In the next post I am going to explain my thoughts and show pics of the trans and differential. As well state my current options.

M.Whiterabbit
23rd August 2011, 01:45 AM
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/3.JPG

http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/2.JPG

http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/6.JPG

Plan Alpha: I want to pretty much recreate the Saab layout. With the trans and diff under the engine. This would be the easiest way I think. I would attach the top loader to the diff with the method used by Vairefast (http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,314946,315148,quote=1) and then attach the primary casing to the top loader. To solve the oil problem I was thinking of using an oil pan from a future model and have a dry sump. I wanted the primary casing to be able to dry fit things together and to see if it could work. Or if there was another way to do thing like off balance or something. As in almost side by side, this could work since I almost always drive alone and my wife weighs half of me.

Plan Beta: This is the easy way out. Since the Top loader is ridiculously small I would be able to mount it in the cabin of the car in a traditional sports RWD layout. This would involve some cutting and more fabrication but its more straight forward. I would buy a back end of a car from junkyard modify it to bolt up to the back of the Saab and bobs your uncle. There are some problems however. I would still use the C5 diff unless it was hard to mount then I could easily sell it for a profit to buy a different one. I just wanted the C5 cause it could take a pounding.
1 the exhaust and air intake would be backwards. I can probably fix both by using the exhaust and intake from a 9000 to go along with the T5.
2. Exhaust tube. I would either use oval tubing (http://drgas.mybisi.com/products/Oval-Tubing-and-Bends_194998/?page1) and try and run it close to the drive shaft or side exhaust.
3. I would have a hard time doing this in my apartment garage.
4. Steering rack might be a problem because its both too low and high at the same time but since the top loader is really tiny I think it would go over or under no problem.

Plan Gamma: Clean up the top loader and sell it and the C5 diff and use that money to buy a donor car and do it the regular way.

Obviously these are vastly over simplified but are do able. In the next post I will cover some of the things I have learned already and answer any questions.

li Arc
23rd August 2011, 01:14 PM
Wow, this sounds like a pretty crazy project! Unfortunately, I don't know much about the parts you're using and even less about fabricating mods, but I am quite curious to see how this turns out. And you're right: that top loader transmission is ridiculously small...10" long?? Wow...depending on how tall each component is and how long the diff is, it looks like you may be able to put it where the stock transmission normally resides, with the exception of engine oil. But if you've got that figured out, if you can get the diff to line up properly against the wheels (ie. if it's too short you can add some length to it, but if it's too long, maybe more difficult), then really all you need is a way to transfer engine power to the transmission (hack up a primary casing?) and a way to bolt it all together and it should go!

That being said, I have a 5-speed primary casing from my project that I'm not using without anything in it (no sprockets or chains), or a 4-speed primary casing with everything else in it (ie. chains, sprockets, 4th gear decoupled, etc.), if you might want it (or both; I'm not certain if the chains and sprockets from the 5-speed can go into the 4-speed). Although primary case strength isn't really debated, the 4-speed primary casing is from a chillcast case, if that's worth anything to you. I was going to toss these (and the rest of the 4-speed parts) in the junkyard, so you can have them for the cost of shipping if you'd like.

li Arc

M.Whiterabbit
23rd August 2011, 07:14 PM
TIL: The main shaft of the top loader (http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/6.JPG) I have is different from Variefast's (http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/file.php?1,file=44035,filename=trans_shifter_side. jpg) top loader. it is shorter and doesn't have the speedo thing on it. His is from a truck or van and mine is from a grenada (http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1975_granada.jpg).

Also for some more information about the top loader. It is universally renowned as being indestructible (http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=184) and bullet proof (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/era-speak-bob-putnam/98762-toploader-transmission-use.html). The top loader easily handles 500 hp+ from 4000 lb cars. The C5 diff is from the fifth generation corvette and usually is attached directly to the trans for a transaxle (http://www.web-cars.com/corvette/1997-3.php) that is in the back of the car. Its made to be used like a toy. I didn't choose these so I can make a powerhouse but rather for fuel economy. Such that when I want to cruise the highway at 70mph at 1k rpm I can but I can also lay the hammer down with out fear of breaking anything.

I think I have a real good chance of making it work with the stock set up. Since the top loader is shaped like an iceberg (http://www.carmemories.com/images/dbimages/668.jpg) with the majority of its stuff underneath it offers a lot of room. Another way of thinking of it is that its shaped like a tadpole. Also the picture below shows the highly scientific way that I proved to myself it could work.
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/7.JPG

This shows the top loader 1/2" from the primary casing and 1/2" from the C5 Diff. The diff is perfectly aligned with the axle. Also it shows that the top loader is small so small that with its tail housing on its shorter than the rotor.

Stuff I have done(SIHD): I have contacted David Kee about getting the main shaft right for the application so I can mate it to the diff and am waiting back on it. I also have started to clean the top loader so I can paint it and start using my good camera (http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/) to take pics.

M.Whiterabbit
25th August 2011, 01:55 AM
Today I feebly tried to clean the top loader and took a look at its gears. I say feebly because i took off over a pound of crud and it looks about the same. Its gonna be a lot of work to get it paint able. I had read that the cover for the top loader was only there to keep out dirt and I assumed that it must have some type of structural support but its about thick as a soup can's top and kinda flimsy. I would say its offering as much support to the top loader as the cloth of my convertible is adding to the cars rigidity. Also the bolts were only about finger tight despite being caked in crud so I guess it really is just for show. Any ways the gears look perfect and have no chips or rubs or anything. The main shaft spins freely and it shifts weirdly but nicely. I say weirdly because I can not find neutral (http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/huu-3738611.pdf). The shifter looks lik (http://www.kevinstang.com/fordshift.htm)e some type of sorcery (http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/260x260/9369543.jpg) to me but its all pretty simple with the actual transmission controls. The first lever is for 3rd/4th, the middle has reverse/neutral, and the third lever has 1st/neutral/2nd. I am toying with the idea of a servo or solenoid controlled shifting mechanism but that will wait till its on the car. Here is a picture of the gears:

http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/8.JPG

Also for fun since I am waiting to print out instructions for removal of the top loader's guts I decided to take a look in the differential. First off this should solidify that the C5 diff is SRS BSNS. (http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r173/ConceptJunkie/KirkSrsBsns.jpg) Its bigger and almost as heavy as the top loader which is quite a feat cause the top loader is cast iron and the diff is all aluminum. I think all together the entire trans assembly will be under 100 lbs which is pretty sweet. here is the insides of the diff.

http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/10.JPG
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/9.JPG
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/11.JPG
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/12.JPG

I really couldn't tell much about it but I am researching it. Right now I am slightly concerned that it doesn't turn but that might be cause there is nothing plugged into it. Also it came with a built in temperature gauge so I have to find a place to put another gauge in the cockpit. Also since I cleaned the majority of the crud off I will be able to bring the good camera out and take better pictures once I figure out the lighting. Right now the single heat lamp is way to harsh.

M.Whiterabbit
26th August 2011, 07:29 AM
Bad news on the top loader front. Turns out I have an imposter (http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/imposters.htm). And that I paid the right amount for it. Doesn't really bother me as people still say they are good for over 300 hp but be warned they have shallow teeth. Most people complain that 3rd gear is too long. I don't really mind that as it will give the turbo time to spool. I was able to find out the gear ratios for it however.

1st 3.29
2nd 1.84
3rd 1.00
4th 0.81

The diff has 2.73

So based off that I guess I can get up to almost 200 mph at 6000 and 63 mph at 2000 rpm. I did not take into consideration about the primary gears however. Below is a png of the speed in relation to rpms using this model.


http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/gearratio.png


The good news is that even though its the less desirable model it will still work swimmingly and replacement parts will be cheaper at yards because no one is looking for them. Also I am making great headway towards painting it. Here is six hours of work.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/13.JPG

There you can plainly see the tell tale bump of the overdrive. Tomorrow I am getting a proper set of snap ring pliers so I can test fit the output shaft to the diff.

M.Whiterabbit
1st September 2011, 01:46 AM
I looked everywhere for a decent heavy duty lock ring tool but couldn't find one. On a last ditch effort I went to sears and http://clickserve.cc-dt.com/link/tplimage?lid=41000000024683071&pubid=21000000000175726&mid=5336714586I found one (http://clickserve.cc-dt.com/link/click?lid=41000000026646073&pubid=21000000000175726&mid=5336714586&redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sears.com%2Fshc%2Fs%2Fp_ 10153_12605_00947386000P%3FprdNo%3D11%26blockNo%3D 11%26blockType%3DG11) that works ok ish 30s after walking in the store. It opens just wide enough to give hope that the lock ring will come off but that hope is crushed instantly as it becomes apparent that the pliers open slightly smaller than the diameter of the shaft. I can usually wiggle a screw driver in there (http://youtu.be/qkse0OBDIVQ?t=5m27s) to get the ring off but if I could get 1/8" more of an opening on the pliers I would be very happy. I was looking at the diff again today trying to figure out how come it wasn't mating to the trans so I decided to take a closer look. Turns out the diff has a 25 spline while the trans has a 28 spline. I miscounted the first time (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2057420&postcount=5) so now I have some new things to buy. I am going to coast corvette (http://www.coastcorvette.com/) later this week to find if they have a 28 spline thing or a 31 spline. I say thing because I don't know what its called but it is heavy and big. pics below

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/14.JPG

For better size reference.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/15.JPG

That's all for now. Hopefully in a couple weeks I will get a primary casing or two to try out so I can see what direction this project will go.

M.Whiterabbit
3rd September 2011, 01:21 AM
Not much of an update here just recording my options.

Since the top loader has a 28 spline shaft and the differential has a 25 spline shaft. This presents a problem. I booted up solid works and saw that by removing three splines with the cnc on the top loader it still wouldn't fit into the diff. even if they where not all in a row. Something about non corresponding angels. So in order to fully flush out my options I need some help from the community.



I know that the C6 model has 31 spline pinion. I don't know if it would fit in with my C5 diff though. I am going to ask a corvette forum and see if there is any cheap way to do it.
There is talk i hear whispered in the wind of the internet of a 25 spline main shaft. But that it is not looked upon favorably hence the whispers.
It is my impression that later 900 models and 9k models all had special holes in them to be used with a standard GM bell housing. Is this correct? If so then this is good news cause then I could make a GM to top loader adapter or buy one I guess. Does anyone know that bell housing type? This of course means going RWD which is ok cause that will be fun too. Also this means that I would put my head on the new block with the new exhaust and intake. not as fun. The good news is that this would balance out the car a little better as the diff is heavy. And that 25 spline drive shafts are cheap.
I could make my own custom top loader main shaft (http://928.landsharkoz.com/Forums/tabid/211/forumid/1/postid/468/view/topic/Default.aspx) but I don't know how much it would cost to do so. If its under $600 I would do it since that would be cheaper than anything else. Still its a gamble because I don't even know if the engine will fit above the top loader and diff but will know soon. That and it will stress my personal CNC to its limits but might only take 2 hours on a industrial CNC. What kind of metal is usually used for main shafts? Or I could make my own pinion. Both could work but one is helical and has inside parts that would either require a 5 axis machine or use of a 4 axis and a 3 axis. I have a 4 axis machine that is capable but wouldn't be able to do the splines. But it would take over a month to cut on the hard metal vs having a shop do it while I wait. I'll ask around but its easier to make a shaft since there is less metal removal.
I could sell the diff and get a new one that is the correct spline but that wouldn't be as strong.
Drop a SBC in there and call it a day even though I live in Ca.

Sent out a lot of emails and posted on a corvette thread. Noticed something new about Varifasts (http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,314946,315148,quote=1) set up in that he has the same 3 speed over drive as I do. That is promising but his diff is at 3.42 while mine is at 2.73. That means his came off of a manual car (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-tech/1972262-how-can-i-find-what-gear-is-in-this-rear.html)so there may be hope yet of getting a correct splined gear set. Hopefully my corvette forum post (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-tech/2905966-differential-help.html) will help.

M.Whiterabbit
9th September 2011, 03:42 PM
So I heard back from a couple people


From VairFast

Hello,
I had to do a bunch of stuff to get the toploader splines to fit the c5 diff.(weld it up, anneal it, have it resplined, then hardened, then straightened.) Best way to do it is try to get a new shaft made. If I do another set-up I would have a new shaft made for it rather than modifying the original. Also the next c5 vair I do, won't use the Toploader overdrive trans. 2nd to 3rd gear is to wide for me. I'm working on my next one to use a regular 4speed toploader with 2:73 c5 diff. I think the gear spacing will be much better and 4th gear will still be about the same using the O.D. trans with the 3:42 c5 diff.
So far everything is working great on the car.
Thanks for the interest.
Then from RPM transmissions who are very good with Corvette transmissions said
You’ll have to take a pinion and have it machined to 31 spline.
So that looks kind of bleak. But once I get a hold of some primary casings I will be able to determine my next step.

M.Whiterabbit
16th September 2011, 12:21 AM
Today, I got nothing done on the transmission parts. But I did manage to break both the handles of my vert top two days ago so now it won't close. I don't really know how the top is constructed but my soreness confirms that it is harder to push the front part down and try and fasten it then it is to pull up the entire top unassisted. So much so that my 117lb wife had trouble keeping it from popping off as I tried to maneuver the stubs into the closed position. I tried using jb weld to glue the handles back on with a 16 hour set time under a heat lamp but that didn't work. Then I tried gorilla glue under 17 hours and heat lamps and that didn't work at all. The next thing I am going to try is some west systems 105 and 205 epoxy and hardener with some cf binder. From past composite experience if I only put on 20 coats of mold release and a class A finish on the aluminum handles then the carbon fiber resin it should remain on there until the end of time.

Early next week is when the lil arc (http://www.myteespot.com/images/Images_d/img_H9VriM.jpg)'s primary casings come in to see if I am going to be able to replicate the FWD or if we are going RWD. But it will be a couple of months before I begin building cause my dog had weird problem. He went lethargic, then had blood coming out multiple places, then some coughing. It was a week of almost $1k a day of hospitalization and meds but he started getting better. Then he grew this thing (http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/suuk.jpg) (don't click unless you like big pimples). The vet doesn't know what went wrong with him yet but it wasn't a fungus or bacteria probably. He is doing better and playing hard again but it was a trying and expensive week.

M.Whiterabbit
26th September 2011, 05:42 PM
Many things have happened since the last post. The biggest event was that last week I was subjected to an accident that dented Saabrina's passenger door and wing. The damage is not that bad as its mostly cosmetic but still worse then being perfect. The good news is that the passenger door no longer sticks and I was not at fault.

http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/crash/acciden.JPG
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/crash/dent.JPG
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/crash/wingdent.JPG

In other news last week, same day as crash, the primary casings came from lil Arc. Although I have been busy trying to get things in order and the garage reorganized for production again I discovered somethings. The bad news is that the casings fit, or that fit close enough that I have to fully mock things up to tell if its going to work or not. This is bad news because I wanted a clear cut sign of where to go. The good news is that if things go south I now have more ways to play. Anyways here is a small photo essay of what I did this weekend for Saabrina.



http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/epoxy.jpg
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/offset.jpg
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/cutting.jpg
http://www.mswhiterabbit.com/saab/blood.jpg

More will come shortly as I start to get the pieces put together.

M.Whiterabbit
26th September 2011, 11:23 PM
On the drive home I had something weird happen 5 times. The engine would cut out. All of a sudden it would just gone then would come back on a second or two later. I wasn't accelerating or going on weird slopes and I had over 3/4 of a tank. When the engine cut out all the dash lights would turn on then the tach would drop to 0 while the gas and speedo stayed the same. The idle is nice and I can find no missing hoses or any problems so far. Any ideas? It did smell a little rich the last time it cut out. I tried to reposition it in the garage just a while ago and it had a hard time staying on and had to have some help from the accelerator to keep it running but after an initial stuttering it stayed strong.

nuclear944
27th September 2011, 12:27 AM
On the drive home I has something weird happen 5 times. The engine would cut out as I was driving. Just gone then would come back on a second or two later. Wasn't accelerating or going on weird slopes, I had over 3/4th of a tank. When it cut out all the dash lights would turn on then the tach would drop to 0 while the gas and speedo stayed the same. The idle is nice and I can find no missing hoses or any problems so far. Any ideas? It did smell a little rich the last time it cut out. I tried to reposition it in the garage just a while ago and it had a hard time staying on and had to have some help from the gas to keep it running but it stayed strong after that.

I've had symptoms like this from a bad ECU ground strap. Clean the grounds on the head very thoroughly and have a look at the big ground on the starboard side of the radiator. I've had an engine run so rich it dripped liquid gas out the tailpipe. This was after I had messed with the grounds on the head. Re-tightening and joining the two straps together solved the problem.
Also check all the vital electrical connections for the ECU.

Don't forget to look at the alternator and battery cables. The C900 shuts off if the battery is disconnected while running...

M.Whiterabbit
27th September 2011, 03:25 AM
Thanks, I'll check it out in the morning before work and report back if I find anything amiss. It seems very plausible that its a loose ground since she runs beautifully then just goes limp only to spring back to life.

M.Whiterabbit
27th September 2011, 12:21 PM
Well I checked the three main grounding points in the engine. And the battery cables and everything was on tight. So I decided I'll try and make it to school/work today. Nope (http://youtu.be/LJP1DphOWPs). I got about 1 mile in and it died, started again on its own. It stopped and started on its own with a 2 second delay between stopping and starting. I learned through 4 trials with 3 controls that the restarting of the engine was independent on what I did. Meaning I could take my foot off the gas and it would restart or I could have my foot on or off the brakes too. Also during these times the ABS light would turn on when the car restarted then turn off when it died then stay off until it died then it would turn on again. Also when the car died and the lights turned on the three brake lights on the dash would illuminate but not always the rights on the right side of the dash. I decided to go back home when it died on the 57 on ramp and didn't turn back on until I was already merged. So I got off on Lambert and headed home. When I was pulling back into the apartment gates it died but did not automatically restart. So in short i drove just under 11 miles to have it die and restart over 10 times. yesterday it was 4 times over 30 miles. I'm letting her cool down now so that I can rip her apart to find anything loose or broken. I'm going to start with the alternator then work my way back to the ECU.

nuclear944
27th September 2011, 05:27 PM
'91 aren't too notorious for ECU failures. But it's starting to sound like it. Good luck.

M.Whiterabbit
27th September 2011, 06:33 PM
Is the ECU year specific? Such that I can put a 92-94 or 89-91 ecu in the car until I scramble to get the t5 harness ive been looking for? I know there might be a ecu at the junkyard but I don't know what year it is.

li Arc
27th September 2011, 07:40 PM
Although ECU can cause this, so can loose or bad connections. I have had similar symptoms before, until I figured out both fuse 23 and one of the two instrument panel connectors was loose. For some reason the car would run a few minutes then the instrument panel would go nuts and shut down. I wouldn't be able to restart it, and fuse 23 would blow. I would replace the fuse, and do the cycle all over again, until I found one of the dash connectors loose.

That pretty much fixed it, if I remember correctly. The c900's seem to rely very heavily on the dash for correct operation.

li Arc

M.Whiterabbit
28th September 2011, 12:13 AM
Thanks I'll check out the dash tomorrow. No bad grounds or any blown fuses in the engine bay or under the rear seat. Will check again tomorrow for safety then under the dash. If that doesn't work then I am going to buy a T5 harness and put that in ASAP since I am going to do it anyways and that is the only thing holding me back. I got all the sensor and a sexy trigger wheel from Squaab99t just missing the harness. so we shall see how this goes.

M.Whiterabbit
28th September 2011, 03:41 PM
Well I found out the problem. After taking out the insides of my car and dash and bolster I found out it was with my push button ignition. Specifically the relay that controls the ignition/running switch. I had the relay there because initially the first time I went to push button my master switch burned out in 4 months. Then I went to a relay set up and that burned out after about 2 years. Not a bad run so I replaced it but am currently planning on something to fix this problem. Either way now I have a a stripped interior to put away. The bright side is that it felt good to use a multimeter again and going back into multisim (http://www.ni.com/multisim/) makes me nostalgic.

M.Whiterabbit
1st October 2011, 11:40 PM
Saabrina has been running amazing since I replaced the relay for the push button ignition switch. I am a little worried that it might happen again so I am still working on a quadruple redundant (http://klabs.org/DEI/Processor/shuttle/garman_bug_81.pdf) set up to solve this. She did have a problem today though, as I bottomed out hard going into fresh and easy. I normally take that entrance slow but was being absent minded today, resulting in the trans ramming the ground hard. She took it well but died while I was putting the top up. She started again fast but needed help to stay on. On the drive home she was back to normal but it wasn't a pleasant shopping experience in between.

For the trans mock up I have some pictures below. To see the full size ones just click on the image to go to the big link.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0132.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0132.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0134.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0134.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0135.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0135.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0136.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0136.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0137.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0137.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0138.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0138.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0140.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0140.jpg)
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0145.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0145.jpg)

M.Whiterabbit
1st October 2011, 11:47 PM
Well here are some hard numbers and some more pics to think about. Mostly the difference in set up.

Here is the saab way

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0146.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0146.jpg)

Here is the way that makes sense to me.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/small/DSC_0148.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/transidea/big/DSC_0148.jpg)

Now for the numbers. From the front cover of the primary case to the middle of the axle it is 25". I can't make it any closer because of the shift rods but i can easily manage another 3/4" before it starts getting tricky. Or from the front part of the transmission/back of the primary casing transfer plate it is 17.25".

Those numbers combined with the depth of the crank shaft are the most concerning to me. I could end up doing a side by side thing where the engine sits off to the side more and the trans is on the right, facing the car. This would mean that the right side would have a shorter axle then the left. So trans experts is it deep enough? what kind of measurements should I take in order to make an informed decision? I can make a small oil pan for a dry sump then place the oil somewhere else if needed, which would be cool.

SaabCrazee
11th October 2011, 12:30 PM
You should call Advance Adapters in Paso Robles. They built their business doing stuff like this. They may already have done a toploader to a C5 pig adapter. That would take care of half the job... They are the best! Give 'em a call and tell them what you're doing.

M.Whiterabbit
11th October 2011, 12:50 PM
Thanks I will call them later. I checked out their site. And it looks like they do make different spline shafts but not the splines I need. I was just planning on having one made and maybe they can do it. Or having my father in law just get me a new ford diff, he is in the core business. But that's on the back burner right now. Currently I have to find out if the crank shaft will be able to fit and spin with out hitting the top loader. I am planning to implement a dry sump so that should help but I want expansion room too. If I could find a pic or better yet measurements of just a primary case stuck on a block with the crankshaft out that would help a lot. As for the top loader to diff adapter plate it's just a 3/8th" thick piece of steel with some holes. My cnc can do that no problem. well maybe it's been a little brat lately. Skipping steps and gaining slop as a result.

M.Whiterabbit
12th October 2011, 02:14 AM
I haven't done much lately since as stated earlier the cnc has decided to go from .0001" accuracy to .5" in some places. The gib is shot because I assumed that it can run automatically at the same pace that I do manual. This is silly and it gets my every time. Maybe it gets lonely idk but its making me rip my hair out.

More importantly does any one know where to get these?

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/vertboltsmall.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/vertbolt.JPG)

It was on the piston for the convertible top. It broke off because it wasn't fully on the threads creating a weak point. Its actually about another half inch longer some of that is left on the threaded piston. Its twin had a failure point on the eyebolt its self but I haven't removed it yet so I can't take a pic. It also choose to fail in a way that would not help it. This came after years of forgetting to put the latches back when I lowered the top. So a month ago the latches and these fixtures broke on both pistons. Lowes, Home despot, and 3 different LHS' didn't have any clue where to find them. I know its a female eyebolt with a 3/8" thread. Normally I would have just made one myself but I can't due to the cnc. I can still operate my top to a point but not as well as I could with these on there. It doesn't fully push the top forward and I have to maneuver the stubborn thing into place.

Also later this week I will get around to temporally disabling the push button and making it normal keyed ignition again. That means I can take it into a body shop for service. I'm never thrilled to lend my car, even more so after I installed the push button but I need to get the damage fixed.

M.Whiterabbit
26th October 2011, 05:47 PM
Well I got the cnc working again. So now I will be cutting out the tabs this weekend.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/vertabs.png

M.Whiterabbit
31st October 2011, 12:47 AM
So I cut out the tabs. They turned out both better and worse than I expected. Better in that I got the times messed up so i thought it would take 2 hours to cut out, which isn't uncommon for a lot of things, but it turned out to be 25 min. Here are some out of focus pics from my ipod's camera.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/1.JPG

The tabs are made out of 80/20 aluminum. I love 80/20 because it is strong, hard, and light also it is cheap because http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=83137655&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336714586&toolid=10001 I get it here (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5336714586&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fstores.ebay.com%2F8020-Inc-Garage-Sale). It is real nice for milling because it has such nice small soft little chips. Other alloys like 60/61 have harder harder or more jagged chips. This stuff just gets cut through like butter but out performs all the other Aluminum alloys I have milled.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/2.JPG

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/3.JPG

This was caused from the vice being a little bit out of true. But it is like bubble wrap for manly men because its as thin as rolling paper but crunchy. Very satisfying to pop out.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/4.JPG

Here is what I wasn't so satisfied about. I didn't know where I needed to thin them down to 1/4" for the eyebolt so I just did it manually two different ways and both ended up working. It looks horrible though and eventually I'll change it but for now it works. I haven't fully fitted them yet cause the top has been down, more on that later, and I would have to climb into the back seat with the top up which is not that fun.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/5.JPG

After seeing how it was slightly off I went and faced the vice so it was all square again. Also those ridges are unable to be felt through either finger tip or running the edge of an aluminum block along the surface. Its something that is always very cool. Almost as cool as seeing the mill move on its own.



In other news Saabrina wouldn't start Friday. Luckily I can work from home occasionally but I have a test on tuesday I need to take. The starter solenoid doesn't go clack and the relay for the push button works so it is probably something outside of the cabin. Today I thought I might be able to fix it though through putting in a new ignition barrel. I am doing this because no one understands how to operate the push button switch and I am having body work done soon and because the following has bugged me for two years.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/selector.JPG

There is Saabrina in park. I have tried to fix it before but was never able to get it because I rounded out the 3 mm hex bolt. And so I just put it off for two years because it worked and made the car harder to drive for other people. So today I just sawed part of it off and made a connector on the cnc and put that in. Unfortunately I thought I took a pic but I can't find it. Either way its just a new way to connect the shifter to the rod. Also to get the new ignition barrel in I had to take the old one our. That went over very well once I took drastic measures.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/ignitionbarrel.JPG

In the new trans idea, I don't know how much clearance the crank shaft needs so rather than try and figure that out I have been thinking about the other option of RWD. The current plan is to take a toy truck live axle and put it in the back where the beam axle is currently. Then raise the exhaust tunnel up two inches for extra room. Weld in some extra support and that's the ballgame. I would make a new cubby and center console from Carbon fiber matted to look like the dash or not as glossy. And would use the intake and exhaust from a later 900. The exhaust would follow closely to the propshaft and exit the normal way. The biggest problem would be keeping the rigidity but I think I know a couple of ways. Such as by the back seat underneath the very front there it would be a solid beam across As well as directly behind the drivers seat as low as it can go and clear the drive shaft while allowing the seats to recline. And under the dash behind the kick board. I don't need the HVAC living in CA so I got a lot to work with. I would also move the seats down because I hate that when I sit straight up I look directly at the top of the windshield and have to slouch to see anything. Dropping down the seats 1-2" would make the driver experience much better.

M.Whiterabbit
31st October 2011, 03:43 PM
Cross posted this to stupid questions (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2090168&postcount=3196) for quicker answer.


Hey is this right? Click the pic for a bigger view

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/startersmall.jpg (http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/starter.jpg)


***Edit***

Adding some extra problems. The cable on my garage door broke so now I am locked out. I can't lift it alone because its unbalanced now so the left side hangs down over two inches lower than the right. It means I am trapped outside not able to do work.

M.Whiterabbit
5th November 2011, 06:50 PM
Well since the last time I tried to fix this.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/verttabs/selector.JPG

The selector started to slip a little. So I made a new and better version of the saab connector. Originally there was only one screw holding the shifter onto the cable but now there are three. Below is a small photo essay of how I made it.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%282%29.JPG
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%283%29.JPG
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%284%29.JPG
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%286%29.JPG
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%287%29.JPG

Above you can see the previous version on the right with its one point of contact and the new one on the left that has three points of contact. Don't worry those bolts are just thread testers on the new one.

http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%288%29.JPG

Here in the upper right you can see the modification I made so that I can tighten the selector bolt when the transmission is in park. This makes it easier than having to put the cable and the selector into neutral. To those who don't know you need to yank the cable as far back as it can go to get the trans into park then move it back two notches into neutral. Doable but extra steps.
http://mswhiterabbit.com/saab/autoselector/a%20%281%29.JPG

And finally I tightened down the bolts so good that I broke one of them.

Now she shifts great but I can only start her in neutral because the yellow selector thing doesn't go all the way back into park. Its not a problem but a slight annoyance so that will be a new task.

Also I found out my starter and battery went bad so that caused the no start problem. And because the Bentley describes removing the starter as,To remove/replace starter

Disconnect Battery
remove starter
install is reverse of removal

I had a fun time. I disconnected everything near the throttle body except the throttle body because I couldn't get it off. I also replaced the coolant and cleaned out some of the intercooler pipes. The bad news is now there is trouble staying running at stop lights and idling and the check engine is always on. I will look into that first before the gear selector.

jamengual
9th December 2011, 07:10 PM
Hi.

so how is the toploader coming along ?

I'm very curios about this.

M.Whiterabbit
12th December 2011, 01:50 AM
Hi.

so how is the toploader coming along ?

I'm very curios about this.

It is coming along good but slowly. I have been researching small trucks to cannibalize the rear axle. I found that I can get a whole reear end from the wreckers near me for $300 so I just have to find the right one. I am slowed however as my dogs have accumulated $8K in vet bills this last semester and my school messed up again and didn't charge me for a class until two weeks ago. So I had/have to scrape together $5k to pay off the previously zero balance. Those wondering it went like this, I enrolled in august for this class but was never charged and the financial aid office does things alphabetically so when they got around to me they found out I wasn't charged for a class and billed me for it and of course the late fees. Normally they get the amount right but don't give me the fee statement until this time or after during spring semester but always have the amount right. So all that coupled with depression sets things back but I am working on it. I have some solid works drawings laid out and some tricks planed to make things work.
Another problem is that I have to start ramping up production on my new rocket. Last year I came in second in the First Nations Launch (http://www.uwgb.edu/wsgc/aises/competition.html) and this year I am going to win. If you would like to help then pm me for details or go to last years donations page (https://sites.google.com/site/mwhiterabbit/donations).

So all in all everything is moving along in the parts that don't cost money. Saabrina runs great except for idling in parked where she revs from 1000 to 1500 then cuts down to 1000 every 1.5 seconds. But she is not in park for long cause I just put her in neutral otherwise.

jamengual
12th December 2012, 05:48 PM
It is coming along good but slowly. I have been researching small trucks to cannibalize the rear axle. I found that I can get a whole reear end from the wreckers near me for $300 so I just have to find the right one. I am slowed however as my dogs have accumulated $8K in vet bills this last semester and my school messed up again and didn't charge me for a class until two weeks ago. So I had/have to scrape together $5k to pay off the previously zero balance. Those wondering it went like this, I enrolled in august for this class but was never charged and the financial aid office does things alphabetically so when they got around to me they found out I wasn't charged for a class and billed me for it and of course the late fees. Normally they get the amount right but don't give me the fee statement until this time or after during spring semester but always have the amount right. So all that coupled with depression sets things back but I am working on it. I have some solid works drawings laid out and some tricks planed to make things work.
Another problem is that I have to start ramping up production on my new rocket. Last year I came in second in the First Nations Launch (http://www.uwgb.edu/wsgc/aises/competition.html) and this year I am going to win. If you would like to help then pm me for details or go to last years donations page (https://sites.google.com/site/mwhiterabbit/donations).

So all in all everything is moving along in the parts that don't cost money. Saabrina runs great except for idling in parked where she revs from 1000 to 1500 then cuts down to 1000 every 1.5 seconds. But she is not in park for long cause I just put her in neutral otherwise.


How is the dog ?

Any news about the Transmission project ?

Thinking in doing something crazy with my other 900s and I was thinking to swap transmissions to get some 500hp+/- or something like that, is just a dream for now but if you need some help maybe I can help you with something so that your project get some more traction.

ejenner-2.0
10th February 2013, 06:32 AM
Well I have to admit I never really considered the idea of splitting the transmission into three sections and replacing the Saab parts with something else. That's inspired and looks entirely possible. I guess you will have to get a dry-sump for the engine as that gearbox seems to fill up the space where the oil-pickup tube would go and there is no room for an oil sump?