Newbie here: 3.0 turbo question

[BoostedB5]

Hello everyone at Saab Central. I currently own a 1.8t passat but i am asking questions for a friend and for knowledge on Saabs. What type of turbo is in the 3.0 turbo, stock? And what mods can you do to these cars. Is there a chip? Can i just use a boost controller and up the boost, if so, what is a safe boost before it runs lean? Thank you for your help. (any sites would be great, thanks)

[murphwiz]

The turbo is a Garrett GT17.

The V6 is not very tuneable, the main saab tuners won't touch it.
A boost controller will seriously upset the engine management.
Get him to trade to a 4 cylinder, then some serious tuning can be done in minutes.

[BoostedB5]

thank you. i will tell him but i am sure he will be :cry:

[Imhotep1963]

What about upgrading the turbo to something more powerful?

jim

[murphwiz]

The problem is the basic strength of the base engine.
The V6 was not designed with turbo charging in mind, it's previous life was in N/A form.
Saab added asymtric turbo to it to give the low down grunt SAABs are well known for.

Putting a bigger turbo on will increase boost, but you will also need to have the ECU cistom programmed to add the extra fuel required, or you'll soon end up with lean running and a holed piston :roll:

The V6 has now been dropped from the range.

[DrBoost]

Hi !

Some (technical)facts:
The B308E (200bhp/310Nm) is equipped with a Garrett GT15, BTW quite special design...

The B308E has got one turbocahrger, driven by the exhaust gasses from the front cylinder bank. The compressor is ofcourse feeding all six cylinders.

There is NO wastegate in the system, the turbocharger is "free floating".

I remember back in -96 when I got my first 9-5 V6t, the engine was very quick on throttle responce, something that "had to" be corrected.

Many years ago, a n/a engine was developed to be dropped in to the engine bay of the 9000. Basically an already existing engine within the GM family was used, however, it was not a straight bolt on job. At lot of work was done with the tuned intake system, resulting in 210 bhp @ 6400 rpm.

Then, later during the development of the 9-5 a V6 as needed, but the n/a V6 from the 9k was not the right engine, something stronger, more powerful was needed.
So, adding a turbocharger will do the trick, right ?
Yes, and no....

The 9-5 V6 didn't need to produce more bhp's, we needed TORQUE to get the "right engine". So, adding "a big" turbocharger was not right, we just needed to boost the low and mid rpm range.

That's how and why the V6t concept was born.
It's actually TWO three cylinder engines, in the same block, using the same crankshaft.
I must add that the h/w on V6t is not the same as on the V6i, the engine needed some mods. I wouldn't say that the reason for having so few tuning kits for the V6t is because of the "basic strenght" is poor. I would say that it's not a big market in Sweden, where most Saab tuners can be found.

On the other hand I must say that I wouldn't recommend to increase the power, but that's basically just because of turbocharger limitations. So will it helt to replace the turbo ? Once again, yes and no....
No because it will result in a quite complicated recalibration of the engine management s/w.
Yes, because it has been done....

[Mattlach]

Its also worth noting that even if you can coerce more power out of the V6 engine, it only comes with an auto box. (at least here in the U.S)

Not really what most people tuning cars are looking for.

That and in my humble opinon if you are going to get a car known for having unusually reliable engines, might as well get one that ACTUALLY HAS a saab engine in it, and not some GM crap.

I wish GM had never bought Saab. That was a sad day for all us Swedes. :( :cry:

[nealwku98ta]

sorry to hijack your thread boosted b5 but this thread just caught my eye bc i am reading up on the stats and general opinions of the 3.0 v6 turbo sabb. This is because my girlfriend currently has the option of chosoing between a 99 audi a4 and a 99 sabb 9-5 3.0 turbo.

Dr. boost, you mentioned that sabb used one of their counterparts v6's (gm). Do you happen to know which v6 it is by any chance? I am a gm owner and i am not impressed by any v6 gm has ever produced so that is a concern of mine. Not all gm is trash, gm is just aimed towards another market. In my case, its bang for buck performance and no i don't have a mullett. :nono;

My car is pretty modified and that is an interest that my GF shares with me. :cheesy: So in other words, aside from the engine problems that have already been established, what are the other options for modding a v6 turbo 9-5? Would she be better off taking the a4 keeping in mind it will probably end up with a new suspension set up and engine work. I understand that the engine management will need to be reprogramed but to me this is something that should be done to any car that has had engine modifications that change the engines intake, exhaust, boost, timing, u name it whatever.

Basically it just concerns me that a poorly built gm engine was put into a refined swedish car. AND Then they tried to fix the problem area by slapping forced induction in the engine bay. Seems like a classic half@ss shortcut manuever that is expected of gms lower end models. To me, GM shouldn't lay a finger on sabb even tho they own sabb. The 9-5 should remain a swedish car with swedish build quality and swedish technology, notice how there should be no gm in there. :wink:

I've probably answered my own question but what are everyones thoughts on the a4 9-5v6 turbo battle with tuning and aftermarket parts kept close in mind?

ALSO, feel free to establish or bring to light any other problem areas associated with the 99 9-5's. Thanks for your time!

(what year was the v6 engine option in the 9-5s established and then terminated?)

[Toreador93]

I agree, GM should STAY AWAY FROM SAAB!!!

I have a '99 9-5 2.3t. I've had some issues with it, but this was the trouble year. If she could, do try for a '00 or '01 9-5. I'm sure you could find one for a decent price.

I think the V6 was offered at the start of the 9-5, in 1999 (in the US). It was introduced in Europe in 1998. The last year for 9-5 3.0 was 2003. It is now replaced by the 220hp 2.3t.

I do know the A4 has suspension problems...and the 1.8t has been known for timing belt failures, resulting in some serious damage (I was looking at Passat for quite a while before I found Saab). If you're looking for the lesser of two evils, I'd suggest the 9-5. Nordic Tuning does tune the V6. I don't know what would happen if it "failed" though.

You might also want to look at Volvo. The '99s are a bit uglier, but are more powerful, and probably have less problems (as that model was just on it's way out), except for the S40.

[rockin 9-5]

Ok can you explain what you mean by problem year. Is there a list of problems. I have the 1999 3.0 V6. Can anyone tell me what problems have been occurring. I haven't had major issues yet. I well any and all responses. :! :o

[marineman227]

Did they ever make the 3.0L w/o a turbo? i don't need the power i just like how smooth 6 cylinder engines drive as opposed to choppy or inconsistent 4 bangers. And can you explain more that it's 2 seperate 3 cylinder engines sharing a block and a drive shaft? isn't that all any V'ed motor is?

[Mattlach]

Did they ever make the 3.0L w/o a turbo? i don't need the power i just like how smooth 6 cylinder engines drive as opposed to choppy or inconsistent 4 bangers.

I think they used a naturally aspirated GM V6 for the 9000, but the only V6 used in 9-5's was turbo charged.

Thanks to advanced balancing and whatnot, though, the Saab I4's are remarkably well mannared and smooth.

Saab even dropped the V6 from the lineup in favor of a turbo charged I4 in 2003 (I think it was 2003). This is probably becasue they feel the I4 is just as capable - if not more so - and gives the car a better weight balance.

I ahve never driven a V6 9-5 but I hear from people who have, that they feel a lot less nimble than the I4 varietys.

Unfortunately in the U.S. 4 cyl engines have a terrible reputation (mostly because many domestic manufacturers made some real terrible ones.) I think the 95 goes to probe that even in a larger car a 4 cyl can provide more than enough power, and be civilized enough for the "luxury" segment. (My 9-5 Aero for example is quite powerful and refined)

I tend to be alittle too biased towards teh swedish I4's but I would choose an I4 9-5 over a V6 9-5 10 times ouit of 10.

[THE ANORAK]

:nono; Gents I have been involved with GM and Saab on the development of the V6 motor and not to mince words some of the remarks that are made are a load of horseshite!
Saab requested the V6 but were active in the development of cylinder bore strengtheners and cross drilling of rods for increased oil feed to the gudgeon pin bushes.
These changes were made but most definately engineered by Saab Technical Dept who had an involvement 100%, other changes were made that I had no direct involvement with but the specifications were set by Saab and no compromise was acceptable.
The main market for V6 was US in Cadillac and the arse has fallen out of that, I dont know why but I dont think it reflects on the motor.
Many V6 owners whom I have spoken with have been very pleased with all aspects of the engine but , we all know if you want a performance car they generally do not include large vehicles capable of seating 5 wafting along in luxury.