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Exciting trip to Abbott next week

3K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  Jssaab 
#1 ·
Dear All,

I am brand new here and feel I have found the right place.

I have just taken ownership of a 2004 9-5 2.3t Arc 5door manual. 36k miles, one previous owner known to me.

Great car

I once had a Volvo 850 T5R manual, which had the ECU been breathed on by BBR back in the day (Circa 280bhp). So, I am looking for a little more poke from my relatively youthful 9-5 but have a budget and do not wish to go mad.

I have been in touch with Giles at Abbott Racing after hearing great things about them and he is proposing the following:

ECU upgrade £399.00
ITG airfilter £59.00
Sports down pipe £395.00
Plus 2 hours labour on fitting and setting up £119.00
We need to do the car here really as there are faults that arise and we can sort the problems out here, we need to check the CFM on the Airmass meter as well, ant you need Tech-2 to do this,
MPG is improved, anything between 6-10MPG performance figures go hand in hand with 60hp increase, we don't tend to quote 0-60 figures, also with the increase torque is the main day to day advantage.


60hp up from the 185hp standard sounds impressive though I suspect it might be a slight exaggeration on Abbott's part? Nevertheless...

Is this the best way to go for circa £1k? I was lucky enough not to have to pay very much for the car and plan on keeping it for 5+ years so am prepared to spend the money on a good, robust job.

Many thanks to all,

Stuart
9-5 2.3t Arc 5 door manual
 
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#4 ·
I would say that +60bhp was highly likely, a bigger jump will be in torque and thats what matters way more than bhp ;)
 
#5 ·
Having said that if you fitted an aero turbo and an aero ecu you would pretty much get the same...........

The down pipe will however improve spool up but will also increase noise.............I am a little surprised that they want to do the down pipe to be honest.
 
#6 ·
Thank you for your post. Yes they said torque improvement would be massive - something which, in my opinion, is somewhat lacking in my model.

Abbott also told me the downpipe really makes the upgrade more of a complete package and that many customers who just had the ECU done then came back for the downpipe. (Needing the ECU to be re-mapped again.) But then they would say this.
 
#8 ·
Thank you for your post. Yes they said torque improvement would be massive - something which, in my opinion, is somewhat lacking in my model.

Abbott also told me the downpipe really makes the upgrade more of a complete package and that many customers who just had the ECU done then came back for the downpipe. (Needing the ECU to be re-mapped again.) But then they would say this.
The great thing about Abbott is they actually map in house to your hardware so they are correct that you will get the most from this.

Had you decided to buy from another off the shelf tuner adding the downpipe would still help with spool up but would not be specifically mapped for until stage 3 when a full exhaust is required.

If it were my money, and the exhaust was in good nick I would simply have the ECU etc and wait until the exhaust starts to fail then change the whole system (the whole system is cheaper than seperate components from Abbott anyways)....

I would bet that the actual power differenece between having or not having the downpipe is very little - less than 5bhp and 10Nm, but you will gain in spool up and throttle response.......up to you fella ;)
 
#7 ·
Well in the 2004 9-5 Arc model you actually have the Mitsu TD-04 turbo which is the same as the Aero... For that year I believe the only difference may be a turbo intake pipe and software. Definitely software, but I may be wrong about the turbo intake pipe.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Well in the 2004 9-5 Arc model you actually have the Mitsu TD-04 turbo which is the same as the Aero... .
Is that true of the 185bhp UK car?

I thought the TD-04 ones had 220bhp
 
#10 ·
Hmmm my only hesitation is with the suggestion of an upgraded downpipe, but I see no mention of catback modifications? I tried that exact setup with my tuned car awhile ago, but found the catback was a huge source of backpressure. It made my stage 3 ecu run very poorly. After swapping catbacks (so full exhaust replaced from turbo back), the results were astounding! This is why most tuners normally suggest upgrading the catback before the downpipe.

With a full exhaust you should be able to get up to the 300hp ballpark, assuming your 2004 Arc does indeed have the TD-04 turbo that I think it has. Of course these gains are best realised with an intercooler as well, to offset heatsoak and keep your performance consistent on hotter days. Seeing as it is winter, you might as well put that off until later, but I still highly recommend considering doing your catback before you get tuned!

You certainly don't have to buy a full expensive catback system. Lots of members have the middle muffer replaced with straight pipe, and have a new free flowing rear muffler (e.g. magnaflow) welded in place. Usually only costs a few hundred dollars at most.
 
#11 ·
Unless your Arc is extra de-tuned (highly unlikely/impossible), you currently should have a TD-04 turbo and are currently sitting at 220BHP. As far as hardware goes, your car is basically identical to an Aero, though I do believe there may be a couple insignificant differences. In other words, if you can have them give you a stage 1 Aero tune you should be able to save a lot of money and you will see about the same HP/torque increase. With this you really don't need the air intake or downpipe as the Aero model doesn't require this for stage 1 either. If you're looking to go further with tuning, you will want to look into the exhaust system - going with a full exhaust will yield the best results for you. If that's something you are interested in, do as others have advised and get the exhaust before going to see Abbott, then have them give you a stage 2 or 3 tune, depending on what they think and you want.
 
#12 ·
Are you sure?

Is that true of the 185bhp UK car?
 
#13 ·
Nope, but I don't think Saab makes a 2.3t Arc that is 185HP. Maybe I'm wrong and you guys across the pond are a bit different than us though. Hopefully stuart95 can provide us with some more information, but I'm not entirely sure he knows for certain that his car is 185bhp (he just said "185bhp standard").
 
#16 ·
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#20 ·
This has completely confused me. I have read your old posts about how well Abbotts treated you afterwards so I don't really understand your gripes with them?

I don't know how much new TD04 Turbo's are? (I wouldn't want a 2nd hand one.) And then I would need someone to fit it and still remap the ECU. With the greatest respect, I don't have the time or patience for all that. I just want a decent job done and it seems that the majority out there are in favour of Abbott.

In fact only yesterday, I visited the Sabb independents who have looked after my car to date and even they were full of praise for Abbott. They mentioned that Abbotts weren't necessarily the cheapest but did a good job. And if the work comes guaranteed, that's good enough for me.

Stuart

PS - to earlier posts about the 'standard' bhp. I can assure you that my car is 185bhp 'standard.'
 
#17 ·
Tom, from memory Abbott came all the way to Scotland, trailored your car back to London, fitted a new engine and all the ancilleries and modifications FOC didn't they? You were full of praise for them at the time for doing this why the sudden change of heart? As least it shows they back up their products.
 
#18 ·
#19 ·
Things have appeared to have got confusing!

All I can say is that I have a standard 2.3 SE and an Abbott tuned 2.3 Vector, ECU, exhaust, and air filter (it also has Bilstein shocks and 18" BBS wheels).

The SE (185bhp) is not a slow car, put your foot down and it moves. The Vector however is fast, it's mid range acceleration is awesome, put your foot down in sports mode and you have to hold on, it's almost too much power for the car.

I haven't had any problems and do get good mpg from it. I don't know what the bhp is, or what the original bhp was, I'd assumed it was 185. I've been told it is now around 250/260 but all i can say is that there is a huge difference between the two cars.
 
#21 ·
Stuart let me try and make some sense of this for you.

Us Europeans know that you car is 185bhp and that it has the Garrett turbo ;)

The experience of many of us suggests that the ECU upgrade is very good value and you will notice a huge jump.

Improving the flow of air in, will help although there are cheaper options than the Abbott ITG.

The downpipe however is unusual - its not something we would expect to see upgraded at the first stage - you have the Garrett GT17 turbo which has a great quick spool up, not sure it will benefit that much from the downpipe.

As you do not need a new turbo at the moment, then there is no need to contemplate buying a TD-04 unless you want to reach power levels in excess of say 250-260bhp - I believe they are about £500 new plus some extra oil and coolant lines would be required and you would still need a corresponding ECU map.

So if I were you my only question from your first post would be to Abbotts - "what additional improvement will the downpipe alone give me at this level of tune?"

However I think Abbott have quoted you on their Beta package which includes the full exhaust according to the pictures:

http://www.abbottracing.net/product.php?id_product=353

This gives the +65hp you mentioned earlier and a full exhaust makes much more sense than just a downpipe being added.

You are in good, confident and guaranteed hands, so good luck with the upgrade!
 
#24 ·
Stuart please feel free to send me a PM (private message) if I can possibly help further ;)
 
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#25 ·
So forgive if i feel strongly that i would rather another person go through what i, and many others have been through. But you never hear of the likes of maptun/BSR killing cars in nearly the same frequency as you do abbott.

I think this sucks to be honest Tom.

Stuart asked the same question over on UKsaabs and others have chipped in saying how happy you were that Abbott sorted your own car, I trust you will post on there how what you stated wasn't actually the truth.

So people are following your recommendations.......which you now say are untrue

Now you claim some arm twisting.

Ok show us a bunch of threads where Abbott have "killed" saabs and specifically T7's?

Yours is the only one I've read in all these years and I thought they did a pretty special job of sorting it, they have certainly sorted my own car out when no one else could, in fact Wessy drove it too them cos he was stumped.
 
#27 ·
Curveball ... if you're looking to spend a grand upgrading, why not sell and buy into the Aero bracket? You get a lot more than the more powerful engine. I'm not quite sure how old your car is, but the Aero can be had for sensible money. Also, insurance considerations - I think a standard Aero might be easier/cheaper to insure than an aftermarket tuned car.
 
#28 ·
The jury for me is still out, although we are on speaking terms now after a few years and I bought my woosner pistons from them as they were the cheapest supplier. As access to the ecu software is easily available now and thus we can see what changes have been made it makes it more transparent, thus you would hope not to see things like my 1997 9000 abbott stage 3 ecu which only had the boost limit increased to 1.45bar, nothing else touched in the software. However, this was before abbott got a IT specialist to start working for them, but I've recently just heard that someone new to the saab scene went to abbott and spent lots of money and was told his 9000 would be pushing 320hp. This was with a standard fuel pump and standard injectors! :eek: :eek: thats why the jurys still out!
 
#31 ·
The jury for me is still out, although we are on speaking terms now after a few years and I bought my woosner pistons from them as they were the cheapest supplier. As access to the ecu software is easily available now and thus we can see what changes have been made it makes it more transparent, thus you would hope not to see things like my 1997 9000 abbott stage 3 ecu which only had the boost limit increased to 1.45bar, nothing else touched in the software. However, this was before abbott got a IT specialist to start working for them, but I've recently just heard that someone new to the saab scene went to abbott and spent lots of money and was told his 9000 would be pushing 320hp. This was with a standard fuel pump and standard injectors! :eek: :eek: thats why the jurys still out!
Just to say that i finally made it to Abbott last week...wow! I really am impressed with the performance. We did some testing on the way to Abbotts: 70-90 in 5th was a lowly 15.1 secs and now 7.1 secs! 50-80 in 3rd from 8.1 to 6.1 secs. (These are just rough timings - human error give or take.)

Furthermore I reset the mpg after a fill up and seem to be getting 36-37mpg under normal driving conditions compared to 30-31 before.

It is genuinely like a different machine, the pick-up in almost any gear is incomparable. Plus a wonderful deep rumble on accelerating.

Giles at Abbott's reckons on around 250bhp now and I can believe that.

Very happy overall.
Do a 60-100 mph.
Never seen an Abbott tuned car's dyno with AFR. Why are so many people willing to trust a non-dyno tune without any AFR readings? can't fathom that, I test every tune, its not always teh tuner its the equipment, the tune relies on properly owrkign DI, AFM injectors, pump.. without a reading you have no clue, no clue... no clue...
 
#29 · (Edited)
Abbott Tune

Just to say that i finally made it to Abbott last week...wow! I really am impressed with the performance. We did some testing on the way to Abbotts: 70-90 in 5th was a lowly 15.1 secs and now 7.1 secs! 50-80 in 3rd from 8.1 to 6.1 secs. (These are just rough timings - human error give or take.)

Furthermore I reset the mpg after a fill up and seem to be getting 36-37mpg under normal driving conditions compared to 30-31 before.

It is genuinely like a different machine, the pick-up in almost any gear is incomparable. Plus a wonderful deep rumble on accelerating.

Giles at Abbott's reckons on around 250bhp now and I can believe that.

Very happy overall.
 
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