BSR PPC tuning - update [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: BSR PPC tuning - update


mav238
15-12-03, 11:24 AM
I got a reply from BSR that they are about to finalize the PPC tuning software for the SAAB 9-3 SS. I requested a ballpark Hp and torque increase, but they sasid they would rather wait till they finalize it before releasing the numbers.

Hmmm... if they could push the car to 230hp with the software upgrade together with the highflow airfilter and my magnaflow, that may be worth considering...

03_Saab 9-3
15-12-03, 11:46 AM
Definately worth considering, im just so leary of doing somthin and it shorts out the system or somthin and they say sorry your warranty is toast, with the way this car has been going. I should have my magnaflow @ Xmas and may just do that, the filter and be done with her, until i can afford repairs out of my pocket if somthin like that did happen.

Cayman1
15-12-03, 01:45 PM
I think that would be pretty sad if they could only get 20hp out of an exhaust, computer upgrade, and an intake.

hopefully it will be more than that....unless you are talking about the 175hp engine.

mav238
15-12-03, 03:05 PM
I think that would be pretty sad if they could only get 20hp out of an exhaust, computer upgrade, and an intake.

hopefully it will be more than that....unless you are talking about the 175hp engine.

Yes, I am talking about the 175hp engine.

Cayman1
15-12-03, 03:07 PM
now you're talking!

Vector-SS
15-12-03, 03:13 PM
Mav,

Are these upgrades only for the 175hp SS. Any upgrades mentioned about the 210 SS?

Vector-SS
15-12-03, 03:21 PM
So what is the solution for the pistons NOT to detach themselves as Simon mentioned. This sounds to me like total nonsense. Why would they produce an engine as such?

pjku79
15-12-03, 04:18 PM
if its total nonsense, how about you be our ginnie pig?

mav238
15-12-03, 04:44 PM
Mav,

Are these upgrades only for the 175hp SS. Any upgrades mentioned about the 210 SS?

BSR rep did not clarify. But I believe they are working on both.

Saba
15-12-03, 06:13 PM
So what is the solution for the pistons NOT to detach themselves as Simon mentioned. This sounds to me like total nonsense. Why would they produce an engine as such?They produced an engine to do exactly what it does. 99% of 9-3 buyers will leave their engine as it is.Why then would they want to waste on money on toughening up and engine to withstand 300-350hp when the market simply doesn't want it.

mav238
16-12-03, 02:09 AM
So what is the solution for the pistons NOT to detach themselves as Simon mentioned. This sounds to me like total nonsense. Why would they produce an engine as such?They produced an engine to do exactly what it does. 99% of 9-3 buyers will leave their engine as it is.Why then would they want to waste on money on toughening up and engine to withstand 300-350hp when the market simply doesn't want it.

Car makers are like any other equipment builders. You always build a 10-20% allowance into how much the equipment can take e.g. temperature,pressure, impact...etc.

I am in the pharmaceutical business, and I design specialized processing equipment which are under high pressure (~1000 psi). When I design it, if my client requires say 500 psi operational pressure, I design and test the equipment to go to 1500 psi max pressure. I am not assuming the client would really want to go to that max pressure, but I am at least sure the equipment will not "blow" up on the client if he push the equipment past his original claimed operational pressure, to say 800psi.

In the same way, I believe car engine builders does the same thing, and always build an allowance into it's stress tolerance, to ensure safe operational and for those out of the specifications running...

Saba
16-12-03, 02:55 AM
Yes but we don' have the option of pushing past the "operational horsepower" we have 175 or 210. At the 245hp "blow up point" we are looking at a 40% allowance for the 175 and 17% for the 210hp. Our stock Saabs will NEVER reach that so Saab doesn't have to worry about blowing up the engines. Increase their output by ECU/turbo modifications then I would expect other modifications would also have to be made to withstand such power. The point is that there is scope for an increase in power, but the 9-3 was never designed to be a high horsepowered racer. If you wanted that you bought the wrong car or expect to fork out for modifications above and beyond what you do to the ECU or turbo.

Anyway isn't 9-3 sports HATCH coming out with our engine in 250hp guise?

93ssaero
16-12-03, 02:57 AM
A friend to me is the person who have crackt the t8 unit for BSR and if i whan´t i can have my aero tuned tomorrow.. but i will wait some weeks.. Aero model will have around 240-250 without exhaust...

Vector-SS
16-12-03, 07:09 AM
93ssaero,

Do you have an approximate time when it will be released and about the pricing?

93ssaero
16-12-03, 07:45 AM
january or beginning of feb.

black_linear
16-12-03, 09:53 AM
Wow, I am going to start saving my money now. This is very exciting news. I hope it's less than $1000

SS
17-12-03, 01:16 AM
A friend to me is the person who have crackt the t8 unit for BSR and if i whan´t i can have my aero tuned tomorrow.. but i will wait some weeks.. Aero model will have around 240-250 without exhaust...

Do you mean aero & vector ?

93ssaero
17-12-03, 02:20 AM
Yes..

247hp and 388nm without exhaust here in sweden

Vector-SS
17-12-03, 04:27 AM
Man that sounds wonderful. Have they released any dyno results of this upgrade?

93ssaero
17-12-03, 05:05 AM
no not really but my friend told me... and he works with them..

Vector-SS
17-12-03, 05:14 AM
I actually noticed that on the main BSR website that they now have a slot for the 9-3 Aero. Looking good!

mav238
17-12-03, 11:41 AM
Yes but we don' have the option of pushing past the "operational horsepower" we have 175 or 210. At the 245hp "blow up point" we are looking at a 40% allowance for the 175 and 17% for the 210hp. Our stock Saabs will NEVER reach that so Saab doesn't have to worry about blowing up the engines. Increase their output by ECU/turbo modifications then I would expect other modifications would also have to be made to withstand such power. The point is that there is scope for an increase in power, but the 9-3 was never designed to be a high horsepowered racer. If you wanted that you bought the wrong car or expect to fork out for modifications above and beyond what you do to the ECU or turbo.

Anyway isn't 9-3 sports HATCH coming out with our engine in 250hp guise?

Maybe let me reword what I am trying to say in my previous e-posting. Car engine makers build allowances that allow the engine to sustain 10-20% higher hp and torque. Yes, you are right, the car can't push past that, being limited by the current T8, but some people may occasionally drive the car close to the rpm redline and keep it there for sustain periods of time. The stresses coming from that kind of sustained hasrsh operation is similar to making the car operate at higher hp.

You ask why people would want to tune their cars, and that if we did, we bought the wrong car. Hmmm... there are a lot of people who like to tune their cars aftermarket, and if not, Hirsh and abbott racing, will be out of business by now. Even there exists BMW tuners, that take a basically good M54 engine found in the 3 series 330i, and rework it to put out 280hp, and this is on the same engine block. Why? Because, some people just love to show off their cars in a retuned form. And some people don't! So to each his own. Not everyone can afford an ashton martin or a porsche +4, so they take a "tunable" good engine and rework it. Definitely less money than buying an exotic race car.

Saba
17-12-03, 12:09 PM
I would have to disagree on sustaining redline is equivalent to higher horsepower. A higher horsepower would suggest that more work was being done, hence more forces where being applied. Maintaining it at redline will not increase the forces on the internals. It will increase their length of exposure to the forces. Durability of the internals is what is important at sustained redline, not their ability to withstand higher forces.

Saab make 230,000 NEW cars a year, I said that 99% (I guessed) of those never get an engine upgrade (by the first owner). That leaves 2300 NEWengines to be upgraded by Abbott and co. But I bet it is not these 2300 engines that keep Abbott and Co operating. It is the second and third owners of Saabs that keep them going. Saab couldn't care less about these owners because they didn't buy a car off them. Saab makes its profit off NEW cars, not second hand cars, so it will build a car that fits the requirements of the NEW car owner and the new car owner generally (mostly, almost always) will not upgrade their engine.

mav238
17-12-03, 12:24 PM
I would have to disagree on sustaining redline is equivalent to higher horsepower. A higher horsepower would suggest that more work was being done, hence more forces where being applied. Maintaining it at redline will not increase the forces on the internals. It will increase their length of exposure to the forces. Durability of the internals is what is important at sustained redline, not their ability to withstand higher forces.

Saab make 230,000 NEW cars a year, I said that 99% (I guessed) of those never get an engine upgrade (by the first owner). That leaves 2300 NEWengines to be upgraded by Abbott and co. But I bet it is not these 2300 engines that keep Abbott and Co operating. It is the second and third owners of Saabs that keep them going. Saab couldn't care less about these owners because they didn't buy a car off them. Saab makes its profit off NEW cars, not second hand cars, so it will build a car that fits the requirements of the NEW car owner and the new car owner generally (mostly, almost always) will not upgrade their engine.

Good points, SABA. But IMHO, that is a very narrow-minded view of what really goes on in the world. Look at all the interests built up on on modification to the 9-3SS. Yes, not everyone will do it, but, there are people, "first owners" who will modify their cars.
SAAB don't particularly by choice make their cars tunable aftermarket, but they do build in allowances for durability reasons.
I know of many MB and BMW owners, who bought their vehicles, and within the first year, have modified their engines. Maybe they can afford it, but the fact of the matter is, they did modify their cars.
You are right, SAAB "could not care less" about those who want to modify their cars, and you are not right, that only those second hand car owners modify their cars.
SAAB made their car engines to be more durable, and not to allow it to be more tunable, but that should not be the reason why people should stop wanting to try to tune the 9-3SS right?

Did Honda and Subaru make their cars so that it could be tunable? I don't think so, like you said, all they care about is build an engine that is durable. But tuners will work on it and have, and some even pushing the standard Honda engine Civic block to more than twice the Hp of what block was originally putting out at the factory!

sunburn731
17-12-03, 01:00 PM
in reguards to all the upgrades, the main question i have is:
Will the saab 9-3aero bust under all that power?
It seems that creating the power is no problem, but having the engine not fall apart under increased boost is.
Well according to Nordic.. I talked to one engineer there, and he says that Nordic will decide to or not continue on tuning the car because they feel the cams are loose and will fall apart on pressure. Just like in previous posts, he claims the saab engine is too weak.
But after speaking to engstrom motorsports, he says its fine and has already dyno the car with these numbers:
210hp to 247hp with 286lbs of torque.
In another post i put these issues up, so who is right. The nordic tuners or engstrom motor sports?

SS
17-12-03, 10:36 PM
This is so stupid and i dont get it. I dont get when they say the engine is weak because it doesnt make any sense. What about BSR, they already came up with the upgrade. Its gonna be on the market soon. Is anyone of u guys saying that BSR disregarded the amount of hp the engine can withstand?