1985 900 Turbo 16v 5-speed hatch a.k.a. Saabuffet [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: 1985 900 Turbo 16v 5-speed hatch a.k.a. Saabuffet


Sam900T
05-12-09, 08:49 PM
I figured I was long past due for a dedicated project thread and rather than keep filling up other threads with my questions I'm just going to post them all here. Alright so first off, a little history on the car.

I bought my Saab in late May of 2007 from a neighbor/family friend for $800. It has about 308,000mi so it's up there. If anyone is curious why I've named the car Saabuffet it's because I find the car looks similar (at least color-wise) to Wobbuffet (it's a Pokemon. Remember those days? haha) Here are some pics of how it looked when I first bought it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2674/4161045797_8f1fca7fc2_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/4161046573_9bfcc621b8_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2616/4161803038_26000e7887_o.jpg
I wish this statement were true, but I haven't had A/C since I've owned it. :cheesy:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4161803728_39ca1e1c27_o.jpg

As far as I knew the only problem with it at the time was the power steering, but after browsing this site for a bit I learned that most likely there are more problems than you may think. :lol: So once the car was officially mine and at my house I've since then:

changed the oil
installed new oil filter
added a power steering belt (since it didn't have one)
put in a new air filter
changed the front passenger side brake caliper and hose (old caliper was leaking)
bled the brakes
installed a new oil pressure switch since the old one was leaking
put in a heavy duty skid plate
installed a refurbished power steering rack and new outer tie-rod ends (thanks to the help of you guys :D)

If you have read on the "questions you think are too stupid to ask" thread lately you would know that I had quite a few issues with the power steering rack. The most annoying being that I couldn't put one of the bolts that bolt the rack to the body back in. When I took in my car over to Scanwest Autosport for a front-end alignment and a safety inspection on December 2 they were able to put the original bolt back in for me.

It also turns out to be a good thing I did the safety inspection because they found a few problems. First off my driver's side ball joint was really bad and a real safety issue. other things they noted was my clutch hose was leaking and my lower control arm on the drivers side was cracked. Luckily I had bought a new lower control arm a while ago so I just had them put that one on. Anyway those were the things they replaced.

Alright I know this is a project thread and I haven't really posted any real projects yet but I have a list from the safety inspection of things they found but didn't replace for me (good, I want to do as much of my own work as I can!) A lot of it are minor things but here is what they put:

Centralizing spring is broken
Header pipe bracket is broken
Oil pump is leaking and main pulley is bad
Headgasket is leaking externally
Both left upper a-arm bushings are failing
Muffler is failing inside (I saw a couple small holes where it would leak)
Elbow hose for the fuel rail needs to be updated

So I need to ask, what do you think should be tackled first? Maybe you can rearrange the order I should do these tasks and then I'll upload pics of me doing them when I get to them.

DustinS
05-12-09, 09:20 PM
I love the color(i have the same color), you have a gorgeous car. my dream saab would be your set up, with or without the problems.

is the centralizing spring apart of the shifter assembly?

Sam900T
05-12-09, 09:36 PM
I'm not sure. I don't have too much knowledge on these cars other than to look at the Bentley manual or browse the forums. :D Sadly right now the car looks a little worse for wear since there were a couple spots where there was rust so I've gone the lazy temporary route of sanding it down to metal and using acid-etching primer to cover it for the time being until I get some bondo to cover it. So right now there's a pretty noticeable puke green spot above the rear wheel arch.

DustinS
06-12-09, 12:13 AM
i know how the rust problem goes. my fender flairs are practically non-existent due to rust. what are your plans to paint it? or do you have plans?

mmoe
06-12-09, 02:08 AM
I'm just curious as to what your end goals are for the car? Are you doing a restoration or modifications. :)

I also have an '85 turbo that I'm working on and will eventually start a project thread as well. Let me know if you need anything; I keep a pretty good eye out for parts and it looks like you're pretty close by.

philjohnhb
06-12-09, 08:10 AM
Headgasket is leaking externally Anything to do with the head gasket needs sorting ASAP.

Elbow hose for the fuel rail needs to be updated If this is tired or degraded you should change this soon, you don't want fuel leaking around the top of the engine.

Oil pump is leaking and main pulley is bad, The oil pump leak isn't desperate but changing the main pulley soon would be a good idea.

Both left upper a-arm bushings are failing These usually go on for ages and IIRC the left side bushes can only be changed with the engine out.

Header pipe bracket is broken Which bracket?

Centralizing spring is broken Don't know what you mean by this, you need to get the garage that did the inspection to confirm what they are talking about.

Muffler is failing inside (I saw a couple small holes where it would leak) Not something I would worry about in the short term.

Good luck with the car, flat front Turbo is a nice piece of kit. You could always look out for a flat front aero kit like this:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9996/saab86020.jpg




http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/547/saab86017.jpg


http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2514/saab86014.jpg

nutcase
06-12-09, 08:17 AM
Does the gearstick feel floppy? If so that's possibly the centralising spring refered to?

Sam900T
06-12-09, 10:10 AM
DustinS - I really like the cirrus white look and would mind if my car was that color. Honestly though I'm plenty happy with the platinum blue. I need to find out where I can get some matching paint to do touch ups. I plan on keeping the grill black and I'll probably paint the headlight bezels black as well to match.

mmoe - right now my plans are to just keep this car rolling and pretty much factory. Don't get me wrong, I would like to put on a few modifications, but nothing too crazy, at least for the moment.

philjohnhb - They didn't say which header pipe bracket. Would one be able to tell by looking at it? Not sure about the centralizing spring either. I'll make sure to ask them about these. I would love to get a bodykit like that. If I don't find one then I might consider the Duraflex kit (although they were made for the integrated bumper 900's, so I would have to modify the front bumper).

nutcase - the gearstick feels alright although this is the only manual I have driven so I can't really compare it to anything.

I really need to stress how little I've driven the car. Ever since I've own it, I've only had to fill up the gas tank once. Talk about good fuel economy! :lol:

Sam900T
07-12-09, 07:06 AM
Man I've really been having issues with the winter and the car frosting up on me. My rear defrost doesn't work, I took out the headliner since the fabric was sagging, but now that the metal roof is exposed I think that adds to the condensation factor and the unknown water leak that seeps into the passenger side carpet is only making things worse.

With regards to the rear defrost, I'm still not sure if it's the button or the the grid. The button will light up on the dash but it won't click and stay on (I have to hold it). There's a possibility of a tear in the defrost grid but I'll have to look more closely in the morning.

For the undiscovered leak, I'm still trying to find out where it's coming from. I don't see any gaps in the windshield weatherstripping and I checked the fresh air vent for clogs and water drains fine through there. I heard something about checking the firewall for leaks?

DustinS
07-12-09, 08:18 AM
I have the same problem with the defrost button. I took mine apart to try and fix it, turns out i am missing the little bar that keeps it pressed.(idk how to explain it, i can get pictures later today for you.) i was having problems with my ac button not working 100% so i also took that apart and cleaned it up, i swapped the button so i had a working defrost. i don't use my ac much anyways.

I have the same leak i do believe. i can get pictures of where it is coming from later today as well. it is on my firewall. if you are on the pass. side with the hood open. at the back of the engine bay, front of the engine, look at the firewall, you will see it "peak" near the middle(horizontally) of the engine. just under that "peak" is the cover for something. now go to the pass. side foot well and look up under the dash, you may need to look behind the carpet, you should see about where it is on the outside. i have white and slight rust colored streaks running from a hole that is covered with a cover... to take it out looks like one would need to take out the engine. I guess if one took out the engine to fix the leak, it would be worth doing some other maintenance on the engine and the engine bay/surrounding area

i'll get pictures when i get home from school in about 3 hours, unless someone else can get them up before me.

Sam900T
07-12-09, 08:52 AM
Other things to add to my project list:

driver's side window doesn't work
passenger side window is slooooww
seat heater switch broke off
right side front parking light is burnt out
hatch door will pop off it's latch easily when going over bumps, even when locked
heater seems to only blow out at maximum heat, no matter where I adjust the temp.
I have a strange wire that was under the headliner that runs to the rear that is disconnected and the end looks melted
driver's side seat won't adjust smoothly on the rack sliders
instrument cluster light that lights up the tachometer is burnt out
need to install a radio

and I'm sure there's plenty I can do under the hood!

DustinS
07-12-09, 11:54 AM
ok so i was wrong about my leak... it is the fresh air box.(the box that closes when "re-circulate" button is pressed?). i think it may be yours as well. it's not the actual box, but it is the foam type stuff they used to seal it to the firewall that is causing the leak. i touched some of the sealer and it crumbled under my finger.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6112.jpg

picture of my leak

heater seems to only blow out at maximum heat, no matter where I adjust the temp.

have you taken the dash apart? it may be the rod the attaches the switch the the heater valve thing. i have to make sure i get it in every time i take my dash apart. if you take the driver side front speaker grille out, look through the windshield and you should see a rod with a connector (mine is orange) going from the firewall towards the switches, if you dont see it, it may not be connected.

Sam900T
07-12-09, 01:09 PM
Where exactly is that at? Can you take a further out pic of it? I think I know what you're talking about and the foam around my fresh air vent looks alright. Not seeing any cracks or crumbles.

I have not taken the dash apart. Is it possible to get to it from the hole where the radio goes? If not I'll try finding it through the speaker later on.

DustinS
07-12-09, 04:08 PM
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6117.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6118.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6119.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6120.jpg


the first picture is through the windshield and my hand was guarding from the very bad glare. so sorry for only half the picture being something.

and it isn't orange sorry, obviously black. idk where i got orange.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6121.sized.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6123.sized.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album196/IMG_6124.sized.jpg

Sam900T
07-12-09, 11:09 PM
Cool, thanks. Those pictures make things a lot clearer. Oh yeah with the rear defrost frosting up on the inside I tried two things. I read on another post that if you put the fan speed to the lowest setting, put the temp all the way to cold, and put the fan setting on 0 that that apparently stopped the water leaks in the person's car. I also cracked the passenger side window just a little bit so the moist air has a place to escape and so far I'm seeing an improvement.

mmoe
08-12-09, 01:51 AM
the first picture is through the windshield and my hand was guarding from the very bad glare. so sorry for only half the picture being something.

and it isn't orange sorry, obviously black. idk where i got orange.

The orange is at the end that attaches to the knob, IIRC, so you probably just remember that.

Sam, just be careful not to pinch yourself trying to reattach the rod. It can be done without removing the dash fascia, but it's tight and often results in a massive blood blister (you can probably guess how I know that....).

mmoe
08-12-09, 01:55 AM
By the way, from the name Saabuffet I thought you were just a Jimmy Buffett fan (I don't know anything about Pokemon).

Sam900T
08-12-09, 02:24 AM
By the way, from the name Saabuffet I thought you were just a Jimmy Buffett fan (I don't know anything about Pokemon).

Haha I've heard a couple songs by Jimmy Buffet but that's about as far as that goes.

For anyone who is confused here's the inspiration behind the name Saabuffet:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2693/4167960637_c366df0799_o.jpg

I think I might get some black electrical tape and put some v's on the headlights to give it the eyes and if you look at other pictures of Wobbuffet, it has a black tail so that's kinda like the black spoiler I have on. :cheesy:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/3117305378_0ac564d68c_b.jpg

Sam900T
08-12-09, 01:50 PM
So Dustin, the rod you show that you see through the speaker is connected in my car. Also I don't see any signs of leaking or rust through the firewall where you have posted. So I've decided to move on to getting the rear defrost working again.

First thing I did was swap the defrost switch with the AC switch since I know that one lights up and clicks on. When taking the rear defroster switch apart I found that it was missing the little metal rod that makes it click and stay on. Anyway I got them swapped and reconnected and now the rear defrost clicks on and stays on! Too bad that didn't do a thing.

Next I made sure the rear defrost fuse was fine, which it was. I then moved on to the defrost grid and checked the connections there. I unplugged the wire from the tab, sanded the contacts clean and checked the wire with a multimeter and it's getting juice there, so I reconnected it and same result.

So my only conclusions I've come to are the unknown wire that leads to the back that was under the headliner that is now melted at the end is the defroster wire, or the defrosting grid has a crack in in somewhere and needs patching. Sorry I didn't take any pictures of this but my camera is broken so I'll ask my brother later on to borrow his.

DustinS
08-12-09, 03:59 PM
my grandpa has told me that the actuator the rod hooks up to was copper or some sort of metal. and over time it would seize. he(my grandpa) had his, and when my car was my uncle's he had his replaced. they replaced it with a plastic piece that wouldn't seize. I'm am totally not positive this is your problem. it could be though. i am sure someone else with more experience could get closer to diagnosing it than i can.

glad you got the button working haha. idk if my defrost works now or not. i want to say no. yet i think it is. if your window is fogged, and you have a little bit of gas to spare, start your car, turn off the heater or anything like that and just let your defrost on for a bit. i chose this time to look over the engine bay for any lose/cracked/broken/unconnected hose/electrical wires/connectors. can be a good thing to check every once and awhile. with the car running it makes it easier to spot some of these.

Sam900T
08-12-09, 06:27 PM
I let the engine get good and warm with the defrost running the whole time and I didn't see it even begin to melt the frost on the inside. The front windshield defrosters work great though. Got nice and hot. :D

DustinS
08-12-09, 09:23 PM
that all i could think of. you say there was a wire melted? could you follow the other end and find where it went?

Sam900T
09-12-09, 05:40 AM
Yeah, i know it follows along the left side of the car above the upper hand rails and heads towards the front of the car. I'll get a wire stripper and take off the melted bit and test the wire.

Sam900T
09-12-09, 01:10 PM
Here are the photos of the wire in question. Sorry I couldn't focus it any better but this camera is bad. This is looking at the rear of the car.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4171659987_b6c39627a6_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2761/4171660433_0d720ab645_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2803/4172416096_7ccf5e2322_o.jpg
When you pull the wire out this is what you see. Kinda hard to tell but it's been melted.

So does anyone know of any purpose for this wire? Is it for the defrost?

Neil_G
09-12-09, 08:23 PM
Hi

I thought that 'wire' was actually a hose from the petrol tank / petrol filler to the carbon canister / emissions gear in the engine bay.

Neil

DustinS
10-12-09, 11:27 AM
seems to much of a hazard to route a hose full of fuel through the headliner.

Neil_G
10-12-09, 09:16 PM
It is only a breather hose - fuel vapour only.

I gather it would connect to the carbon canister in the emissions system for the vapours to be absorbed by the active carbon.

regards
Neil

DustinS
10-12-09, 10:40 PM
seems reasonable, yet one would think A: He said it was melted, would not that indicate that at one point it had high heat/fire applied to it, which would have ignited the fumes. B: He would get a strong smell of Fuel in the vehicle during operation.

I need to re-wrap my headliner, so i may take mine out and see 1:if i have one(which i would suspect i do) 2: if i do indeed have one, where it leads. and report back with my findings.

Edit: For the Defrost. When was the last time you checked the defrost fuse? i found my fuse blew. and i had just checked it a few days ago and it was fine. it's a simple easy thing to check, and it never known when one will blow. i had fix a really bad prob. with my tach and e-brake and reverse switch with the change of a blown fuse

Sam900T
12-12-09, 04:53 AM
I'm definitely not noticing any smell of fuel when I drive it, although when my nephew was sitting in the back seat one time he said he smelled gas so it very well can be.

My defrost fuse is fine. I'm also pretty sure the rear defrost relay is fine. If all else fails I might pick up another defrost relay just to be sure.

On a side note, I'm curious about this. I haven't done it yet, but are you able to do quick, snappy shifts on old 900's or are the transmissions not built for that? Will you most likely break something as a result of quick shifts or will you be okay?

mmoe
12-12-09, 02:26 PM
I'm definitely not noticing any smell of fuel when I drive it, although when my nephew was sitting in the back seat one time he said he smelled gas so it very well can be.

My defrost fuse is fine. I'm also pretty sure the rear defrost relay is fine. If all else fails I might pick up another defrost relay just to be sure.

On a side note, I'm curious about this. I haven't done it yet, but are you able to do quick, snappy shifts on old 900's or are the transmissions not built for that? Will you most likely break something as a result of quick shifts or will you be okay?
Most of these 900s have some degree of gas smell due to cracked/broken fuel fillers.

The transmissions on these cars were not the smoothest shifting of designs even when they were new. There are some who have fitted short shifters to their cars which may speed up time between shifts. If you are finding your transmission to be a bit difficult between shifts, try changing the gear oil to either some fresh 10w-30 or Redline MTL. I'd recommend that you change the gearbox oil about once per year. I'm starting to use extended service mobil1 synthetic with a yearly oil change interval for the engine. My thinking is that I'll be able to change both the engine and gearbox oil at the same time and on the same interval.

DustinS
12-12-09, 04:27 PM
there are many times i have done swift shifts, tranny hasn't exploded yet :)
as long as you don't SLAM it in to gear. and you don't do it often you should be ok. well as ok as you can get with these gear boxes.

of course being in an n/a 8v my car takes some time to get up to speed so shifts don't have to be that fast.

Sam900T
21-12-09, 08:32 PM
Alright so sorry for not updating on here recently as we've been having a wave of frosty days and now seemingly nonstop rain. With the rain however I've discovered that I still haven't stopped the water leak, although I think I've found out where it's coming from. I'm seeing a dark, stained spot in the carpet all the way at the end where it started to go up along the firewall. I also have to open the driver door at various times so the water can drain out of it.

Sam900T
29-12-09, 09:00 PM
UPDATE:

So my car's tabs expire, well tonight at midnight actually and I had to put it through emissions before I can get new ones. Luckily since my car is an '85, this would be the last time it would have to go through. :cheesy:

So overall it passed, however the gas cap test failed (hating myself because I had a newer, locking cap back at the house! :x) so I just need to bring that down and if I pass with that cap then I'm a go for new tabs. It's going to be a good way to enter 2010. :cool:

Sam900T
31-12-09, 01:49 PM
Finally got around to try to figure out where the wet footwell source is coming from. Took out the seat, knee bolster, and got the foam sound deadening mat out from under the carpet (which was soaked as expected).

The foam isn't looking too hot.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/4231873460_6390f75245_o.jpg

Here's what was revealed when I removed the sound deadening mat/foam out from under the carpet. It was pretty much wet all around. This was taken after I sopped up the worst of it. Anyone see any major areas of concern here?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2792/4231104483_e024b9a6c2_o.jpg

Also, does anyone know what these holes/vents are? I've always wondered what their use was. Can water possibly come out through them?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4231105065_800e426ba7_o.jpg

Oh yeah, upon taking out the outer plastic part of the knee bolster, I found these treats inside laying on top of the cardboard. A Cream Savers, a Dubble-Bubble and a WINNING SoBe cap from way back when. From what I see this cap doesn't expire either. :cool: I wonder if these prizes came with all Saabs. ;)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2742/4231874248_64c1a6e52b_o.jpg

EDIT/UPDATE:

Looks like I get to eat some of my words. Turns out the leak is coming from EXACTLY where Dustin pointed out in his picture earlier. Upon checking for leaks again since it's raining, I am now seeing droplets coming out through here. I'm kind of kicking myself about it because you can tell in the first pic of the foam that you can see where the leak starts on the upper left hand corner (which would be right under this area). I guess I assumed it wasn't leaking from there since on Dustin's picture his is all rusty and mine looks brand new. Another dead giveaway was the bits of foam attached to the firewall from all the repeated soaking and drying.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4231470775_b92680cb52_o.jpg

So now that I've discovered the leak, what the best way to stop it? Epoxy?

Sam900T
06-01-10, 07:32 PM
Found a couple disconnected wires here by the front right wheel well. Anyboy know what they connect to? They don't connect with each other.

First one is a green and red wire.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4252701488_bdb0d6b5e9_o.jpg

The other is a orange or red and yellow wire.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4251929821_b2f347f2c0_o.jpg

DustinS
08-01-10, 10:57 AM
Glad you found the Leak. yes my car has character :)

I have the same problem with wires that are not connected to anything. i even have some in the engine compartment. yet i cannot find anything to plug it into. my guess is they made a few wire looms to mass produce and it included plugs for many different cars, even if some didn't use some of the parts, in turn leaving open plugs.

the vents, i believe, are for heat. i haven't tested this theory yet though. So i could be very wrong. for all i know they could produce an elf that shine your shoes... If that is the case i haven't found the switch yet.

Turbofrenzy
08-01-10, 01:03 PM
The vents you mention are to heat the rear of the car when the heater is in the arrow down position.
The wiring loom has built in options, like A/C wiring, electric sunroof, front/rear speakers/electric aerial.

Sam900T
04-02-10, 06:57 PM
So my car will will leak a bit in the rain but I've got a towel soaking up the little spot where it does drip. It's been about a month since drying out the floor and so far it's still dry :D.

I've also found out a couple things. First off all my rear defrost is finally kicking in! It seems like it needs to be on for quite a while and that it's kind of weak, but it's definitely working. Are there any easy fixes to making it defrost quicker or better?

Also my driver's side door weatherstripping has pretty much had it. It's starting to stick to the body when it's wet and there's little rust spots that are occurring where it touches. I found a new one you can get off saabsite but it's $140 and I definitely don't want to spend that much unless I have no other option. Anyone know of any other places that sell door weatherstripping?

Squaab99t
04-02-10, 10:26 PM
So my car will will leak a bit in the rain but I've got a towel soaking up the little spot where it does drip. It's been about a month since drying out the floor and so far it's still dry :D.

I've also found out a couple things. First off all my rear defrost is finally kicking in! It seems like it needs to be on for quite a while and that it's kind of weak, but it's definitely working. Are there any easy fixes to making it defrost quicker or better?

Also my driver's side door weatherstripping has pretty much had it. It's starting to stick to the body when it's wet and there's little rust spots that are occurring where it touches. I found a new one you can get off saabsite but it's $140 and I definitely don't want to spend that much unless I have no other option. Anyone know of any other places that sell door weatherstripping?

You might want to drop by the Lynnwood Pull a Part. Might take a few tries, but it might be worth the effort from buying new.

IronJoe
05-02-10, 10:20 AM
So my car will will leak a bit in the rain but I've got a towel soaking up the little spot where it does drip. It's been about a month since drying out the floor and so far it's still dry :D.

Where does it leak from? My SPG had a short-lived problem with this that turned out to be the pop-out rear quarter windows. I shimmed the pop-out mechanism with a few washers to increase the compression of the weatherstripping, and no more leaks. Just unbolt the pop-out mechanism and put two or three small washers between the rubber part and the car body when you reinstall it.

Hope that helps!

Sam900T
05-02-10, 11:17 AM
I don't have any water leaking from the door. Well at least not yet. The spot water would drip in is from the fresh air box where I circled. Right now I just have a rag wedged in there to collect any moisture.

With my door the problem is a mix of the metal where the stripping touches is slightly pitted and has surface rust, and the weather stripping isn't sealing as well as it could.

DanComden
05-02-10, 02:58 PM
I have had a similar leak in that fresh air box. Have tried sealing with silicone and I think I got most of it. My windshield also leaks -- something else to consider. As IronJoe noted, those quarter windows are a common culprit for leaks as well. The best way to track down leaks is to remove the front carpets and seats, get inside the car with a flashlight and have a helper thoroughly hose the car in specific areas while you look for water entry points.

If my car is going to be parked outside for any length of time, I cover that fresh air vent in the hood with a magnetic sign and then cover the car with a tarp and car cover. That has kept things dry. My '85 sits for weeks at a time, though -- for a daily driver that would be a hassle.

The wiring insulation in the '85 is notoriously bad. If you haven't already, check for deteriorated wiring throughout the engine compartment.

The local Pull A Part yards can be a good source for inexpensive replacement parts.

Sam900T
05-08-10, 10:52 PM
Alright update time. Haven't worked on my car in so long my project thread fell off the list haha. I also got a new fancy camera so now you get bigger, better quality pictures! Well if you're coming from my "Whoops! No more tar seal." thread then you are in the right spot.

So to recap, I removed my iac valve to clean it since I was getting unusually high idle from startup. It would jump to 2000 rpm, go down to normal, and then shoot up to 2000 again on its own.

Well after taking out the IAC valve and cleaning it with carb cleaner followed by WD-40 to lube it up, the car now spikes to 3000 rpm when started and it stays there!

I also fixed my tar seal connection with some gasket sealer. I really want to update this to the newer style plug and bushing if it's possible.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4865086608_9b858efd23_b.jpg

So I've read I should check for throttle position sensor, cold start sensor, and mass air flow, but since I'm still new to the Saab mechanic game, I'm not quite sure where all of these are located. Here are some pictures of the throttle area. If you guys notice anything out of place let me know! :D

I've messed around with the locknut and screw a bit but I'm not sure if tightening it or loosening it is supposed to lower the idle.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4865086866_8dc7dd25cf_b.jpg

I've noticed this broken off connection on the top left on the main throttle body. Anyone know what its purpose is?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4865087150_7a42edcb11_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4865087428_c600959612_b.jpg

Here's the IAC valve I cleaned out. All the connections should be in place.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4865087696_5dcfe01b09_b.jpg

Another issue I was worried about were the exposed wire on these two plugs. Should I worry about covering these up soon?
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4864470123_32397f16a3_b.jpg


As far as vacuum issues go I haven't noticed any loose connections or holes in the pipe. Any common places where they tend to fail?

DanComden
06-08-10, 01:47 PM
On that last photo, you'll want to replace the wires on the APC solenoid -- the piece mounted to the core support with the vac lines coming out of it. That is classic 1985 wire rot there.

If you don't care about A/C, the wires connecting to the switch on the upper radiator hose can be safely ignored for now.

If you can find a known good air mass meter to swap in, that will quickly test whether that's the culprit for idle problems. You'll find the AMM at the outlet of the air cleaner. Check all the wires that go into that plug as well -- I'm betting that if they haven't been replaced yet, they'll need it.

You can't really control the idle with the set screw on the throttle body. If you have a Bentley manual, you can follow the procedure for testing the throttle body switch (located on the inboard side of the throttle body, not the part you photographed which has to do with turbo control I believe)

Even after cleaning, the AIC may be bad. Another part to swap out. You may be able to test whether it's doing anything at all by unplugging the wires to it while the car is idling. If RPMs don't change, chances are the AIC is bad.

I have had some luck in the past getting good used AMMs and AICs at the Lynnwood Pull A Part. You'll want to check part numbers though, as some bits (like the jetronic box) are unique to the '85 model year. They have a pretty good parts return policy, just make sure they mark the parts you buy so you can take them back if you find they don't work after testing.

On my '85 I had an idle problem that was caused by a leaky brake booster. There are lots of other places that a vacuum leak will cause high idle. You can remove the big vac line from the intake manifold and block it with something like your thumb to figure out where further down the line a problem might exist.

Sam900T
06-08-10, 10:13 PM
Well that was a quick fix haha. I disconnected the plug going to the IAC valve and started it and the revs quickly went from 3000 rpm to almost nothing. So I know that was the culprit. I plugged it back in fearing it would do the same thing again but surprisingly it didn't. In fact it acted the same as if I still had it disconnected. Perhaps I reset it somehow??

Anyway now I'm stuck with a problem on the opposite end so I played around some more. Now my car struggles just to keep its idle up high enough to not stall. I forgot I messed with that adjustment screw and so I slackened it up a bit and now my idles back to almost normal! :cheesy:

I say almost normal because now it's feeling like it's a little lower than normal idle (the needle is closer to the 500rpm dot than 1k). What can I fine tune to bring the idle up just a little? Will the car be fine if I drive it around with a slightly lower idling speed?

JeffCullen
07-08-10, 12:31 AM
FYI:

Any T16 ECU from an '86, '87, or '88 (LH2.2) will start and run (well!) an '85. An '85 ECU will not work in '86-'88 cars.

All the other injection system stuff is the same. AMM, idle control valve, NTC, yadda yadda yadda.

One of the first things I did with my '85 was throw in an ECU from an '88. I got better driveability and fuel economy!

It's extremely unlikely your IAC is actually faulty, and simply unplugging it doesn't test it at all, just locks it in the last position the ECU had it set at! Note that a dead NTC sensor (screwed into intake manifold between #2 and #3 runners) can cause funky idle around the 2000ish rpm range when hot, or could cause crap running when cold, but generally it's the former failure mode.

After jacking around with the set screw, you are going to have to reset your basic idle. You have screwed up the calibration of your throttle position sensor.

Check out this procedure:

http://townsendimports.com/Web/tuneup_folder/adj_basic_idle_lh2.1.htm

I do things slightly differently as I can't stand any sort of bind or slop at the beginning of the throttle pedal's travel, but I am SUPER anal about this. I like to put the set screw in a position where the throttle plate is just past the point of touching the edge of the throttle body so that the beginning of pedal travel isn't sticky at all. First I take the dashpot out so it isn't messing with anything. Then I unscrew the position sensor so it isn't messing with the throttle plate's potential travel. I then play with the screw and the throttle itself until I can't hear it touching the throttle body when it's operated by hand with my ear up to it. I then play with the position sensor until I have it in such a place that the switch inside it clicks once I start manually opening the throttle by pulling on the cable with my hand. This takes some trial and error, as well as a good ear for the click. If you don't hear the click when opening your throttle past where you have it set as "full closed", the ECU will think you've always got the throttle open, you'll never use the idle fuel map, and you'll have high revs when the throttle is closed as it'll be dumping too much fuel in there, causing the IAC to open too much to compensate, yadda yadda yadda!

The Townsend procedure should cover the rest... ground the test wire (loner 1 pin connector near power steering reservoir -- I ground it using a short wire to the metal part of the vacuum switch which operates the fresh air intake), then set the basic idle to 775rpm +/-25rpm. I hook up a computerized timing light so I have a digital tach, but you may not have such a luxury. Then when you think you've got it, pull the ground from the test wire and you should hear the engine rev up a bit then settle at 850rpm. Once you've done this enough times you start to be able to hear when you've got it or not...

The other thing that affects basic idle is ignition timing which should be set to 16 degrees before top dead center at 850rpm with the distributor vacuum advance capsule disconnected. If I get a car that's really out of spec, I set the basic idle, set the timing, then set the basic idle again and re-check the timing.

After getting all this dialed in, the car does respond a lot more nicely going on and coming off the throttle, which is really nice in traffic!

The last piece is the dashpot, which should be set so that it takes 2-3 seconds to go to fully closed when the throttle is slammed shut from 2500rpm. This is tricky and just takes time. That said, most dashpots I've encountered are old and broken and don't work, so I take them out. The car is a little nicer with it in and it does help with emissions (burning excess fuel left in intake after throttle is slammed shut instead of just spitting it out the exhaust) but we've never had a car without a dashpot fail emissions here in Vancouver.

That should give you something to do...

What's the build date on your '85, out of curiosity? Check the driver's door jamb. Mine's 11/84, and had the older style connector (a la 8V) on the APC solenoid before I changed it... I'm 95% sure from the picture this has been done to yours as well and the heat shrink they used has failed. I actually moved my APC wiring from under the back seat to the same location as the '86/up cars to have the customary red box under-hood candy... and when I say I moved the wiring, I mean I literally pulled the five wires out of the wiring harness one by one with the interior disassembled, then threw them in some heat shrink tubing and ran them out a grommet in the firewall near the fuse box... ran a new ground wire (in through the stock wiring harness...) to the rad support ground point as in the '86 setup... everything soldered and nicely heat shrink wrapped up to the new '86/up style 25 pin connector. It looks bone stock...

I am a veritable encyclopedia on the things which make the '85 T16 unique, feel free to PM me any time.

Sam900T
08-08-10, 12:21 AM
What ecu comes stock on the '85s? I've always been confused on the LH2.2's and all the other versions.

JeffCullen
08-08-10, 04:52 AM
'85 T16s were the first to get Jetronic LH2.2, which continued through '88. To be honest, I haven't researched why an '85 ECU won't run an '86-'88, while a newer ECU will run an '85...

'89 got LH2.4, which continued through to the last '94 convertibles.

Things are different on N/A 16Vs--they got LH2.4 a year earlier, and when the 2.1 came out in '91, they switched to LH2.4.2.

Sam900T
08-08-10, 09:25 AM
I just checked Jeff, my cars' build date was 5/85.

Sam900T
09-08-10, 01:37 PM
I think I might not have to reset my basic idle afterall unless I got my terms mixed up. I said I messed around with the "adjustment screw" and now I see that there are two different screws with locknuts on them. The one I messed with was the bigger "throttle valve air bleed screw", not the smaller throttle stop screw. Hopefully that means I don't have to worry about resetting the idle and ignition timing anymore unless the AIC unplugging issue still needs to be addressed.

JeffCullen
09-08-10, 05:58 PM
OK, you shouldn't have to mess around with the TPS in that case... though it never hurts to perform this procedure to make sure everything's dialed in right.

You still could have gone outside of the happy operating range of the IAC, so grounding out the test plug to see what the engine does with the IAC fully closed still wouldn't be a bad idea...

Sam900T
11-08-10, 09:30 PM
I've been having issue's with going into reverse. It will vary between going in smoothly without a hitch, or slamming into place and jerking the whole car. I've played around with moving the stick slowly and shifting to reverse quickly but I haven't found the solution. I'm thinking my clutch may be sticking ever so slightly. I'll hold down the clutch for a while before I engage reverse and that has worked once but I haven't tried it enough. Any remedies to fix this?

JeffCullen
11-08-10, 10:20 PM
Reverse isn't synchronized on these cars. I always press the clutch, hit another gear first, then hit reverse. If it doesn't slide into reverse, I *slowly* let out the clutch while trying to select the gear until it pops in.

Sam900T
11-08-10, 10:31 PM
Alright, I'll give that a shot. I just knew that because of the lack of a synchro you couldn't engage reverse until the car was fully stopped.

JeffCullen
13-08-10, 05:24 PM
If you go straight for reverse right after pressing in the clutch pedal, the input shaft in the transmission will still be spinning and since the reverse gear isn't synchronized, it can't stop it in a smooth way like the other gears. Pressing in the clutch and waiting for the input shaft in the transmission to stop completely would work too, but it's always luck of the draw whether things will line up when you go to select the gear, hence the *slowly*-letting-out-the-clutch method.

turbo stephan
14-08-10, 04:44 PM
Reverse isn't synchronized on these cars. I always press the clutch, hit another gear first, then hit reverse. If it doesn't slide into reverse, I *slowly* let out the clutch while trying to select the gear until it pops in.

Or, if I might add, drive an inch forward in 1st gear and put reverse in then...

Hey Jeff, I see you have an Aero now too. Cool, I have to see that thing...

Stephan

JeffCullen
15-08-10, 08:51 AM
Have actually had that Aero since April '04! The head gasket blew two years later and at the time I couldn't turn a wrench to save my life, so I decided to inspect the car thoroughly for rust. Found a considerable amount on both rear shock towers so I stored the car planning to part it out. That never happened, and four years later (this year), I had acquired the skills to fix the mechanical stuff and now have access to someone to help me with the metalwork, so the car is on its second life! To be honest it's a beater, but it's a great daily driver.

In other news I have most of the stuff I bought from Vince installed on my '85 SPG now (red top injectors, Jak Stoll chip, Group 9 AID, Saab Savior short shifter) and it's a riot to drive... really need to do the suspension (planning on Koni/Intrax) and brakes ('88 hub conversion to run 9K fronts, as well as 16" Aero wheels) now as it's far too quick for the handling/stopping... however I think I have some blown valve guides as I'm burning a ton of oil under heavy vacuum i.e. decelerating down a hill above 3500rpm. No biggie as I have a spare engine ('88 block, '90 head) and rebuilt gearbox ready to go.

Sorry for the thread hijack, carry on!

Sam900T
05-09-10, 10:13 AM
One reoccurring problem I have that I notice is when I'm downshifting to second for a turn it will grind. This doesn't happen for any other gear but second and only grinds going from third to second. It tends to happen more when I'm doing it at faster speeds. Any ideas?

dmgb5
05-09-10, 12:01 PM
Worn 2nd gear synchro.

Sam900T
05-09-10, 09:39 PM
Looks like I'm going to have to pick up double-clutching for the time being! :cheesy:

SaabHat93
07-09-10, 06:57 PM
Looks like I'm going to have to pick up double-clutching for the time being! :cheesy:

Double clutching works for shifting up. What you need for down shifting is single clutch rev matching.

Blip the throttle and get the revs to what they will be in 2nd gear after you put it into neutral from 3rd. Say you're at 2500 rpms in 3rd, and as you slow down the revs for second will be around 3100. Put it into neutral and give it gas so that the engine speed will match that of the gearbox when you put it into second.

I hope that makes sense. It's really hard to explain without showing you.

thereisnospork
07-09-10, 11:06 PM
That little white switch under the tb lever is a shift-up light override for engine braking iirc. Not at all necessary of course.

Sam900T
08-09-10, 12:36 AM
Double clutching works for shifting up. What you need for down shifting is single clutch rev matching.

Actually that's what I've always done for downshifting to 2nd was single clutch revmatch. It will still grind. Could it be I'm just not revving it high enough or is that not a factor?

SaabHat93
08-09-10, 01:32 AM
It could be that you're not doing it enough.

After you get into 2nd, does the rev counter go up, down or stay the same? You'll know you've done it correctly when the shift is smooth as butter and the gearbox and engine feel like they've matched speeds. You'll hear it, too.

Sam900T
08-09-10, 01:44 AM
More often than not I'm not revving it high enough. It doesn't help that the sudden grinding noise surprises and distracts me from the task at hand.

mmoe
08-09-10, 03:04 AM
Why not give me a shout this weekend and I'll bring my clutch tool over for a more permanent fix. 2 hours and you won't have to deal with it anymore (for a while anyways). ;)

I've got a few spare slaves laying around, so I'm sure one of them is in good shape. I'll trade you for a cold bottle of Coke or Pepsi.

Sam900T
09-09-10, 02:40 AM
That's alright. It really hasn't been troubling me all that much. I'll see what I can do first.

Sam900T
14-09-10, 07:03 AM
So I've had my lower part of my front splitter or air dam removed since it only had half of it left and I haven't replaced it yet. Will not having one really mess with my fuel economy or handling that much?

Sam900T
27-09-10, 09:14 PM
I've just been reminded why I love this car so much. Ever since I've owned my car the driver's side window never worked. I finally took the time to rip apart the door and see if I needed to buy a new window motor or if I could salvage it back to life.

Literally all I do is shuffle the scissor mechanism around a bit and push the window button a couple times and boom, the thing comes to life!! :o I swear if that's all I needed to do I probably could've just given it a good Fonzie smack to fix it. :lol:

Of course the first thing that pops in my head after it started working was, "YES! Now I can pull up fast food drive thru's and get food like a normal American!" Haha! But seriously though, I'm very excited. Can you imagine going years having your passenger enjoy the breeze from their working window while you have to suffer with just the sunroof. It's tough out there.