Our washing machine has broken ... [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Our washing machine has broken ...


Orca
27-09-09, 12:10 PM
... bummer, eh? :roll:

It's been kind of off spindle for a good while now and started to do that annoying thing where is goes back and forth for ages trying to get into the final spin cycle. Anyway something was plainly wrong since today it made an 'orrible grinding noise and once drained, the drum is warped and catches on something inside the machine.

I don't have the heart to open it up and fiddle about. It's broken.

So, are there any white goods experts here who perhaps do that for their job? I'd rather deal with someone I share some common interest with and "keep it in the family" so to speak than pop down to some godawful showroom/warehouse and end up yelling until I'm blue in the face about how I don't want their damn warranty and will they please shut up and sell me the damn washing machine :evil:

Yup! If there's someone here who deals in white goods and is happy to deliver (and take the old unit away?) to between Bradford and Halifax (that's UK, not Canadialand) with something suitable - branded name, preferably Hotpoint (my Mrs likes Hotpoint, I like Zanussi - guess who won :lol: ) and it must fit into the following dimensions: 59.5cm (w) 51.5cm (d) and 85cm (h) - our current unit is 82cm high and stands on thick plinth, but we can accommodate an 85cm height unit. If removed, is it okay to run the unit on a raised floor? It is also fitted into the units, so will need to be able to take a door attached to the front of the unit. We're looking to spend around £300.

If you fit the bill, please get in touch by PM initially.
Penguin45 came to mind - if someone has his contact details, that would be appreciated.

Any words of commiseration will be accepted below with a smile. Ta ;)

DavidMorgan
27-09-09, 02:36 PM
I am so sorry to hear that you are having to wear the same undies until you get a new machine.... :cry:

Only one thing to say be sure you get Miele ..
12 years ago when we moved from a flat to a house we changed everything .. bought all new and Miele ... more expensive but for me the best ..
http://www.miele.co.uk/washing-machines/

Orca
27-09-09, 03:51 PM
You assume I don't already ... frugal Northerner ;)

Yeah, the Miele looks good. If I can get a deal on one at the right price, who knows. I'll carry on washing my socks in the bath in the meantime.

That said, such a reply on one of my detailing forums said "anything but a Miele". The other question is parts - I've read (online) that the Miele is difficult to source parts and service for ... but they tend not to go wrong.

Decisions ... decisions :lol:

DavidMorgan
27-09-09, 04:20 PM
We have Miele micro-wave, oven, dish-washer, fridge, freezer and washing machine..
For me their after sales is excellent. I had a little problem with the micro-wave .. it was buzzing when it shouldn't .. I gave them a call and with my phone number they at once recognised me and I had a real Miele man in the house the next day. They are on the ball and I will only be getting 15% commission on your washer :lol:.
Oh, the oven I bought new but a good price on-line .. I tried to carry it up the garden steps into the house, slippped fell and broke the glass door .. its made of 3 or 4 panes :o. The Miele man was there the next day and he didn't charge a penny .. somehow he put it all under guarrantee even though it was I who had broken it.

Cuba
27-09-09, 04:47 PM
We have Miele micro-wave, oven, dish-washer, fridge, freezer and washing machine..


Don't forget dog, don't you have a Miele dog too? :p

Al'
27-09-09, 05:16 PM
I second the advice for Miele washing machine (dunno whether you'll get one for the cash you want to pony up though........)

I assumed that all Miele stuff was as bulletproof as the washers and was called out on that assumption on this board (I think). Glad to hear/read that someone's as happy with their other stuff (mainly coz it makes me feel slightly less stoopid for assuming)

Orca
27-09-09, 05:23 PM
We do maybe three, or four washes a week. Really, that little. I don't think I can justify the stretch beyond around £300, but I'll see what I can get - basically, take the proverbial with retailers and see if they bite ;)

saab19
27-09-09, 05:29 PM
flip your drawers inside out. good for another three days.

SaabKen
27-09-09, 09:47 PM
We have Miele micro-wave, oven, dish-washer, fridge, freezer and washing machine..

Don't forget dog, don't you have a Miele dog too? :p

Don't forget their bikes ...... they made some pretty damn good roadbikes

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/94/233163151_2514885ed2.jpg

DavidMorgan
28-09-09, 02:32 AM
Don't forget dog, don't you have a Miele dog too? :p
Yes ... :lol: that reminds me a rdvz with the vet this afternoon ..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/davidmorgan/d6919a20.jpg

and I also have some miel in the fridge ;)

THEOLDMAN
28-09-09, 07:32 AM
Sounds like what is happening with our washer. It sounds like the timer/motor assembly is whacked. The machine needs to be helped through the cycles, it seems to hang up on drain cycles especially. I'm going to replace mine since it's only a little over a $100 part as opposed to replacing the washing machine. When I was in the hotel industry my staff and I worked on the commercial units in the hotel laundry, this is the same only smaller. BTW the service call is a little long...

Albert Trout
28-09-09, 08:39 AM
You assume I don't already ... frugal Northerner


and the further North you go the tighter we get. Speak to Mr.Beko. I really don't want to spend more than the bare minimum on a washing machine. Got one of these for £199 5 years ago and it hasn't missed a beat. They're not much to look at but all we ever use is one programme 3/4 times a week. Order online, with no need to deal with a local bampot trying to flog you warranty's and store cards.

http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/store/dix_page.jsp?page=SimpleSearchProducts&criterion=Beko%20Washing%20Machines&camp_id=ppc_Google_WashingMachine_Generic_Beko&gclid=CP3k3_enlJ0CFVFf4wodI2eXUQ&source_id=aw

Penguin45
28-09-09, 08:56 PM
Now pay attention, 007 (s).........

The first thing to consider is that you absolutely will get what you are prepared to pay for..... 15-20 years ago, all washing machines were priced at £300-350, the German brands were (rightly) more expensive and a funny little brand called Indesit were somewhat cheaper.

Now, you can buy washers from £160 (I wouldn't have one given, let alone pay money for one). How is this possible? Back then, washers were built to last approximately 7 years with "family use" (Defined as 5 loads a week!). The machines were also electro-mechanical and basic in the extreme. This meant that repairs were simple and cheap overall - you could squeeze 10-12 years out of the old Hotpoints and Hoovers without inconveniencing the customer's pocket too much. Electronics? Basic board to run the motor was about as far as it went. Nowadays, it's all electronic. The pursuit of energy efficiency and reduced water usage to achieve A or A+ ratings has completely changed the way washers work (usually at the expense of time) and given the public "easy" choices.

The rise of electronics is sold as efficiency. This is, of course, a large number of spherical objects flying in close formation. Electronics means to the manufacturer that instead of a skilled worker spending 15 minutes connecting 120 wires to an electro-mechanical timer unit (5% were still wrong - QC issues.....), they can get a semi-skilled worker to snap on four or five connectors to a printed circuit board in seconds. Time is money, after all and humans are expensive. Oh, yes.

Downgrading of materials is constant at the budget end of the market. Metal tubs are now plastic. The plastics get thinner and thinner. Base model Indesits if you take the lid off, you can see the drum turning through the plastic. Leave a coin in your pocket and it will like as not write your machine off as it exits through the plastic of the tank. Oh - the really cheap ones have the tub ultrasonically welded shut. Bearing failure? New tub. Typical price £120-130. Plus VAT and two hours of the repairers time to fit..... Ain't going to happen, is it? The cost of electronics is just the same. All the budget stuff is just one repair away from land fill. And it'll die early, so it has no chance of re-couping its production energy..... But it was A rated, so you were saving the planet. Obllocks.

All manufacturers build machines now based on a destruction cycle. I'm very involved in www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk (http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk) (Sorry, Mods, it's in context), out of which has come the ISE project ( www.iseappliances.co.uk (http://www.iseappliances.co.uk) ). We don't own a factory, obviously, so our machines are manufactured to specification for us and it has been an absolute eye-opener. Real budget machines have a destruction cycle of 600-800 washes. Family use? Dead in 18 months. Our mid-range machine cycles at about 2,500 and goes out with a 5 year warranty. The top of the range one (with a 10 year warranty) has a guaranteed life of 8,000 cycles, with a usage average of 12,000.

The point is - you pay. The 600 cycle machine will cost you £200-250. The 2,500 cycle machine will cost at least £400 and the top of the range one nearly £800. The maths is pretty obvious when you get down to it.

The real villains of the piece, surprisingly, are not the manufacturers, but the sheds. That's the major retailers. They have no interest in quality or longevity in the product they sell. They merely wish to sell white boxes at a profit and as often as possible. The public at large are too stupid to realise, buy into it and then have the gall to moan about the failure of their bargain. Sorry, I have little sympathy. The buying power of the major retailers is terrifying. Manufacturers are regularly bullied into producing budget products at the expense of the decent ones by the threat of the withdrawal of all products if they don't comply........ Even Miele put a machine into Comet last year priced at under £500, Poverty spec, minimal guarantee - I'm sure they must have sold some. Trouble is, if it goes wrong, it'll be scrap. Rubber door seal on the front? Typically £15-20 for most brands - £102 plus VAT on the Miele. Electronics? Start at £200 and go upwards from there.

It's a huge, legal, con. OK, it's relatively low value in relation to the beloved SAABs of this forum - you've made a choice to buy something a bit better, which offers quality and longevity (Not too sure about the recent ones, but I'm rather old school) with affordable servicibility. Now do the same with your appliances.

The destruction cycle rule applies across everything, BTW. Microwaves, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, dryers, kettles...... You name it, it's made to a price.

You will get what you pay for.

Penguin45.
Moderator,
UKWhitegoods.co.uk
(and SAAB owner).

Albert Trout
29-09-09, 06:05 AM
Our mid-range machine cycles at about 2,500 and goes out with a 5 year warranty.

I see you have to pay an extra £70 for that 5 year warranty. Comes with 2 as standard. Sounds familiar....

I thought that it was common knowledge white goods were designed to self-destruct after a set period of time. The problem with paying extra and servicing, similar to a car, is that instead of being in the hands of retailers you're now in the hands of repairmen. Day off work sitting in the house to let in an engineer who never appears? No thank you, even if it isn't costing me anything. I'd rather pay less and buy a new one when it breaks.

Orca
29-09-09, 06:42 AM
Excellent reply, Pingu :cool:
I get the message ... it's just down to what I can fit into the space and whether we need to modify the existing units to accommodate. Many thanks for the reply and for the PM.

earthworm
29-09-09, 08:52 AM
I see you have to pay an extra £70 for that 5 year warranty. Comes with 2 as standard. Sounds familiar....

I thought that it was common knowledge white goods were designed to self-destruct after a set period of time. Maybe in England, but not America. But, problems do exist. The problem with paying extra and servicing, similar to a car, is that instead of being in the hands of retailers you're now in the hands of repairmen. No denying it; we do need better repairmen and much more.. Day off work sitting in the house to let in an engineer who never appears? Nothing like DIY, for the washing machine, the car, the house, even the body..No thank you, even if it isn't costing me anything. I'd rather pay less and buy a new one when it breaks . Have you priced a new car recently , or a new washing machine ?
So- after the ash tray is full - trade her in for a new one.. This is or was the American way, of many years ago, maybe it still is...
A good way of doing things ??
Not for me.
The average life, right now, for our machines is over ten years. The Honda is the most durable, the Saab is right behind it (better in some aspects) ,the computer electronics are the least durable.
And I fully agree with the now popular assessment of the "sheds" or here in America, the big box stores.
They are not nice places to go to. I always say NO ! to the useless extra cost warranty.

Albert Trout
29-09-09, 09:19 AM
So- after the ash tray is full - trade her in for a new one.. This is or was the American way, of many years ago, maybe it still is...

Ashtray full. Broken washing machine. Not quite the same thing is it?

So, in the US all washing machines no matter their price, are expected to last forever? Sorry but I don't believe that. I paid £200 for a washing machine and expected it to last 5 years but it's still going. If I paid £5-600 I'd have expected it to last 10 years but I'm not willing to shell out £600 for a product that's usually only under warranty for a couple of years. IMHO, it doesn't make financial sense and if you DIY it, any warranty you had can be kissed goodbye. As Penguin said, you get what you pay for. That's true the world over.

I'll pay extra for a vacuum cleaner, as peformance from cheap models sucks ;oops:. I don't own a microwave, a dishwasher, a dryer, an HDTV (still got a CRT), a BluRay player, my stereo is 16 years and will likely never be replaced. I could go on. But washing machines? To me it's a necessary evil and I take, what I consider to be, the cheapest option.

boon94
29-09-09, 12:46 PM
I always say NO ! to the useless extra cost warranty.

Useless, i dont know about any other states but heres Maine's LAW on warranties.... And the only case in which it does not hold true is with used cars.

"The implied warranty of merchantability is created by Maine law and means that the product will
be “fit for the ordinary purposes” for which such products are used.6 For example, washing machines
must be fit for washing clothes. They must be able to do the job washing machines ordinarily do and to
last for as long as washing machines ordinarily last. The same is true for toasters, new automobiles,
mobile homes, clothing, furniture and every other item you purchase for family, household or personal
use. To prove a breach of the implied warranty of merchantability you must show that the product was
defective in design, materials, or workmanship.
Normally, a state’s U.C.C. allows a seller to disclaim implied warranties and give you only an
express warranty or no warranty at all (the item is sold “as is”). However, in the Maine U.C.C., a seller
is prohibited from disclaiming implied warranties on consumer goods and services.7 In other words, if a new or used consumer good is sold in Maine “as is,” this means only that the seller is not giving you
an express warranty.8 So even if sold “as is,” the item does come with an implied warranty of
merchantability. The only exception to this rule is when the item being sold is a used car.9 See Chapter
9 in this Guide." - LOL found it funny that washing machine is actually used as the example in the text.

Its hard to tell these days if something is priced higher because of branding / marketing, or if it is because of actual superior quality. My LCD TV made by "Sceptre" (generic brand) has great picture, and the same specifications of many samsung televisions, yet costs about $1000 less.... Is it going to mysteriously die sooner than the samsung would, who knows? But i guess because electronics become obsolete much faster than say, washing machines, I might as well buy a cheaper one If i only expect to use it for 4 years, vs 10-15 with a decent washer.

Would it be easy to show that a washing machine failed after 2 years because of poor choice in materials? It definitely seems possible, especially when you can compare that your old washer maintained the same work level for 5 times longer.... This law also allows people to go through the retailer as well as the manufacturer. When I worked at staples, every once and a while a couple would come in with broken electronics, had the implied warranty printed out for us, and made the return, even after over a year.... Just have to save your receipt!

It DOES have its limitations though (4 years max)

In general, the Implied Warranty of Merchantability law applies to you if you have purchased a
new or used consumer item and:
A. The item is so poorly designed or made that it is seriously defective12 and its use is impaired13;
B. You have not abused it;14 and
C. It was purchased less than four years ago15 and it is still within its normally expected “useful
life” (i.e., it has not simply worn out).16

"Strong evidence that the item is significantly defective would be a statement by a repair
facility that a needed repair would be expensive."

jglavin
29-09-09, 01:13 PM
Useless, i dont know about any other states but heres Maine's LAW on warranties.... And the only case in which it does not hold true is with used cars.

"The implied warranty of merchantability is created by Maine law and means that the product will
be “fit for the ordinary purposes” for which such products are used....The only exception to this rule is when the item being sold is a used car.9 See Chapter
9 in this Guide."Wow...so you are by law not allowed to sell any used goods other than a car in Maine, without some kind of implied warranty? That seems a bit extreme. I would have thought it would make more sense to replace "a used car" above with just "used" :confused:

boon94
29-09-09, 01:50 PM
Wow...so you are by law not allowed to sell any used goods other than a car in Maine, without some kind of implied warranty? That seems a bit extreme. I would have thought it would make more sense to replace "a used car" above with just "used" :confused:
the thing is, virtually NO ONE knows about this law.. I keep a printed copy in my car in case i ever need it lol...

Theres also a clause to cover used sales in general.. The whole thing is like 10 pages long, but its really focused on protecting the consumer against companies who manufacture crap, like above mentioned washing machines that break a month after the 1 year standard warranty.
"However, a used good may not last very long. Not because it is defective; but because it is old
and has exceeded its useful life."

LaserRed9-3Aero
29-09-09, 02:19 PM
I've heard really good things about Miele washers before. But I'd also recommend Fisher & Paykel. They're made in New Zealand, and available at specialty retailers here in the US. Maybe 25% more expensive than a "normal" washing machine. I'm not sure if they sell washing machines in the UK.

http://www.fisherpaykel.co.uk/

We replaced a burned-out 4-year old mid-tier Maytag washer about 8 years ago with a Fisher & Paykel washer. Very efficient and seemingly well built. They stress that their machines have no belts to fray and break or gearboxes to blow up. They have a brushless motor directly attached to the agitator. Coming from a machine that would have needed a motor & drive replacement that was 75% of the cost of a new washer, that sold us on the F&P. So far, we have been extremely satisfied with it.

It washes clothes as well as one can expect, and it did actually decrease our water & power bill slightly compared to the Maytag. The 1000 RPM spin cycle is absurdly fast; clothes come out just damp, so there's minimal dryer time. We've even noticed that our clothes seem to last longer than they used to. Not exactly sure why or how, but it seems that a pair of jeans lasts forever now, rather than falling apart after a year or so.

It's done 4/5 loads of laundry a week, every week, for the past 8 years. In that time, we've had exactly one problem with it. About 6 months ago, during one load, a very large & overstuffed comforter got out of whack in the spin cycle and got pushed up too high in the tub. The cloth started rubbing against a rubber water hose that runs to the sprayer at the top, and rubbed a hole in the hose. The replacement hose cost me about $5 and 10 minutes worth of my time to replace. The only wear we can are a few scratches in the plastic ring that tops the stainless steel tub. It still washes & spins up as fast as it did the day we brought it home.

About 4 years ago I recommended a F&P washer to a co-worker. They bought a similar model from F&P and they've not had any problems and have had a similar positive experience.

So anyway, just another brand you could check out during your search.

Good luck!

boon94
29-09-09, 04:35 PM
on the actual topic of washing machine brands... We had a Frigidaire stacking unit for 3 years, moved and gave it to relatives, and they've had it for another 6 years without problems

My parents bosch "premium" unit has had a ton of problems... put in a smidgen too much soap and it errors out, if your clothes get too heavy when wet, it errors out ... And you have to start the cycle all over and PRAY it doesn't happen again. Sometimes the door doesn't lock properly and you have to re-slam it shut... The rubber seal on the door also tore very easily and now it trickles a leak down the front when it runs....
They're selling the house and the machines are staying with it.