Facelift for the Saab 9-5

[Munki]

Taken from the Autoexpress

The Swedes might not shout about it, but the Saab 9-5 has been a real success for the past two years. New diesels and a neat Tourer have helped boost sales of the BMW 5-Series rival to unprecedented levels. And this year, the model looks like it will score its highest number of annual registrations since its launch.

That's not bad for a car that's been with us since 1998. But even though it continues to do well, the 9-5 has been given a spruce-up ready for its assault on the final-quarter sales charts.

New 2004-model cars will be on sale from October, and although visual changes are limited to a different grille, modified bumpers and lower side skirts, there's much more to the latest generation than meets the eye.

Aero variants get a power boost, but by far the most interesting version in the revised line-up is the 2.3T Vector. It replaces the outgoing 3.0-litre V6 model, which had 200bhp and excellent refinement, but was thirsty and belched out 263g/km of CO2, putting it in the highest company car tax bracket.

The new 2.3 four-cylinder is much cleaner. Producing 212g/km of CO2, it's nine percentage brackets lower than the 3.0 for fleet users, yet offers greater power and performance. With 220bhp, it is a development of the Aero HOT's 250bhp unit. But instead of that model's high-output turbo, the 2.3T's low-pressure boost gives smooth delivery rather than out-and-out muscle.

Yet that doesn't mean the new car is slow. The 7.5-second 0-60mph time is one second quicker than the V6's, while the 146mph top speed is identical. The only difference is in the mid-range. Whereas the V6 had a wide torque spread and linear power delivery, the new engine feels more urgent. Throttle response is sharp and the turbo quick to react, but progress is never jerky.

At cruising speeds, the motor is quiet, but lacks the V6's smoothness. Our sole complaint is that there's a fair amount of torque steer under hard acceleration, while the optional 17-inch alloys make the ride rather bumpy.

The cabin has been slightly modified, with the dash being changed from mid-grey to a more subtle, less plasticky black, while light grey leather trim is standard. The dashboard also features a new eye-level display identical to that in the 9-3, which shows warning lights and sat-nav information.

Overall, then, the 2.3T is a convincing package in the mid-size executive market and makes a lot more financial sense than its predecessor, although it lacks the V6's motorway refinement.

[FitnessCC]

Interesting....I'm not sure Saab's thinking here makes sense, in marketing terms:

Granted Europe tends to be "greener" than the U.S., but it seems to me that luxury buyers want the feel, muscle, and status of the V-6. I think Saab will be hard-pressed to convince buyers of its top-of-the-line model, which competes with 5-series, A6, S80, et. al. to settle for a 4-cylinder, even if it has good power/mileage numbers.

Put another way, why would I ever "step up" from my 9-3 to the 9-5, when the engine offerings are virtually identical?

What's odd, IMO, is that GM has made great strides with its V-6 and V-8 engines (as in Cadillac, for example) -- why not use that technology in the 9-5?

[900t]

I don't understand the US fascination with extra cylinders...

The problem with the V6 is it put out nowhere near enough power, WITH a turbo! Compare the 200hp 3.0 Saab motor vs. the 250hp coming out of a Audi 2.7l biturbo...

And compare it with the Aero 4-cyl and you still come up short.

[FitnessCC]

I don't totally disagree with you, 900t -- after all, I've got my 9-3 SS -- but Americans DO have a thing for big engines, and where's the incentive to buy a 9-5 if the 9-3 is virtually the same?? Keep in mind there are plenty-powerful V-6's out there, with or without turbos, and they have a tendency to run a little smoother (with less torque steer) than turbo 4's. For example, my wife's new Nissan Murano has a wonderful V-6 that puts out 245 hp, is smooth as silk mated with a CVT transmission, and still gets over 20 mpg even in an SUV! Put that baby in a 9-5, and you'd have some kind of luxury car that Americans (and others, IMO) would buy in droves :D Indeed, I'd be drooling to step up from the 9-3 the next time I shop...

[CleveSaab]

Agree Fitness. Still a 2.3? My 94 is a 2.3?!?!
:D

[Nairda]

The reason they cancelled the V6 is because nobody bought
them.Same story with the previous generation Saabs like
the 900 & 9000,the V6's were killed off because of no
demand.The 2.3T is vastly superior to the LPT V6-more
durable,less maintainence & just as smooth.FitnessCC you
reason that a 245HP Nissan engine in the 9-5 would
produce no torque steer? The Nissan Altima & Maxima make
torque steer galore,much more than the new Saabs.
Your wife's Nissan Murano is a heavy pig,that's why it has
no "torque steer".People are missing the whole concept
of Turbocharging,a small capacity-fuel sipping engine
that makes masses of torque when you need it @ low rpm.
Maybe in the near future Saab will make a proper 6cyl Turbo
until then the real car enthusiasts will purchase 9-5 2.3T
& will appreciate its entertaining aspects. :D

[Licence]

And as exhaust emmission regulations get stricter it will be the companies that invested in small, efficient but high powered engines that prosper. Lets just hope that SAAB, who are ahead in the game, aren't left behind because of GM 's obsession with the 'bigger is better' American market.
SVC engine where are you?

[mikej]

The 2.3T 9-5 was launched last Friday(26th Sept) of all places Paris :roll:

Now if only they gave the 93ss some more punch
Aero with 250bhp now they might have something to shout about or even use the Subaru technology and make it 300bhp 4 wheel drive.

[murphwiz]

There are rumours of a Vauxhall vectra turbo chucking out 280bhp in the near future...
So who knows!

Europe gets the i32 a V6 supercharged vectra, only available in LHD, as it can't be engineered for RHD.. hence Vauxhall working on something different!

[FitnessCC]

The reason they cancelled the V6 is because nobody bought
them.Same story with the previous generation Saabs like
the 900 & 9000,the V6's were killed off because of no
demand.The 2.3T is vastly superior to the LPT V6-more
durable,less maintainence & just as smooth.FitnessCC you
reason that a 245HP Nissan engine in the 9-5 would
produce no torque steer? The Nissan Altima & Maxima make
torque steer galore,much more than the new Saabs.
Your wife's Nissan Murano is a heavy pig,that's why it has
no "torque steer".People are missing the whole concept
of Turbocharging,a small capacity-fuel sipping engine
that makes masses of torque when you need it @ low rpm.
Maybe in the near future Saab will make a proper 6cyl Turbo
until then the real car enthusiasts will purchase 9-5 2.3T
& will appreciate its entertaining aspects. :D

I'm not disagreeing with the turbo being more efficient (I've owned at least 3 different turbocharged cars in the last 15 years), and any engine with high torque could potentially produce torque steer. I'm just saying, from a sales point of view, I don't think a lot of people will buy a 9-5 with a 4-cylinder engine, especially in the U.S., and especially when the new 9-3 (with 2.0T) is so similar. I suspect the old Saab V-6's didn't sell because the only people buying Saabs were a few green-conscious ones who liked hatchbacks. Now that Saab is trying to appeal to a wider market -- witness the 9-3SS -- I just think a V-6 9-5 would SELL much better. After all, you don't see people driving 5-series, E-series, or S-80's with 4's -- and those cars are direct competitors and far more successful than the 9-5. If the technology is there to make efficient 6's, why not use it and sell a few (or a lot) more cars?

[Nairda]

I somewhat agree that Saab would sell more with a excellent
V6 but the one they used was far from it,it wasn't a Saab
engine & I think people sensed it.I don't see Volvo having
problems selling cars with a 5 cyl,that's an odd engine design, maybe Saabs are not seen as "status" cars like the
others or people just don't notice them or know very little
about them.Bad marketing,limited dealer network,who know's?
but I wish GM valued Saab back in the early 90's then Saab
would be in a better position with more product $ customers.
Now they have to fight their way up & it won't be easy.

[squishmann]

There are rumours of a Vauxhall vectra turbo chucking out 280bhp in the near future...
So who knows!

Europe gets the i32 a V6 supercharged vectra, only available in LHD, as it can't be engineered for RHD.. hence Vauxhall working on something different!


just turn the engine upside down. duh :wink:

i recently drove the 3.0t and it was no fun, very smooth and good power but it made me feel like i was in an old persons car

if saab is going to make a six then it has to be 1. for they're SUV 2. on steriods for the cars

i'm talking about 300hp. they've got to tune the crap out of it.

and the 9-3SS is lame when it comes to power. 210hp for the performance version just doesn't cut it. try 225-250.

and doesn't anyone find it funny that the acura TL has everything that the 9-3 was supposed to have and some more but it cost less and all of it works

-bluetooth
-navi (dvd based, voice activated w/ touchscreen)
-x-celent audio system (DVD 5.1)
-6disc in dash changer w/ cassete and XM radio
-270hp
-dual climate zones
-bi xenon lamps w/ integrated fogs
- power seats w/ driver side power lumbar and heated seats
-17" alloys
-5 speed auto with sportshift or 6spd manual w/ 18" wheels and BREMBO front rotors
-moonroof

everything is standard xcept for navi but w/ navi you can get it for 35,150 incl dest. charge

we just got them in wednesday , the official release is 10.22.03


i can only hope saab will be more price competetive in the future

[Guest]

Everytime I see a 9-5 w/ a v6 engine in it i think of the older V6....
They had all sorts of problems w/ them.. You had to change the timing chain every 30,000 miles.. etc etc..
Any Saab w/ more than 4 cylinders is NOT a Saab to me.
I think Saab has a lot of improvements to make.
The 9-5 doesn't make enough power..
The base Model Should have 230hp...
The Vector should have 250hp
And the Aero should be 280-320hp...
As for the 9-3ss.. I'm not to sure what to make of the car.. I don't care for the engine.. The engine is a complete disappointment in my eyes.. Saab had such a good thing going w/ the 9-3 viggen, and then they changed bodys...
The 9-3ss makes litter girl HP..
They need to step it up a huge knotch..
How is Saab suspose to compete w/ Audi and BMW?
Hrmm Lets see..
S4 Audi 300+hp (I think 320hp)
BMW M3 300+HP
Then we have that nice 93ss Aero that makes... wat 220hp?
I try not to think about what saab is doing.. There is nothing i can do that will change how they make there cars..
The more i think about it the more i get upset..
I'm just happy I own a c900, and one day I'll own a viggen and I'll SQR is.
-John

[nyc 363]

>And the Aero should be 280-320hp...

Using the FWD platform it is just too much power - this would be the new Maxima which everyone has complained about the torque steer. An AWD system or RWD would be needed to apply the 280 + hp. My guess is that the next 9-5 will be AWD or have an AWD option and with the discussed turbo 2.8 V6 will kick out 280 + hp.

[Guest]

Tq Steer can be fixed w/ some suspension mods...
i had nasty tq steer in my c900 when it was stock..
I have 251hp now and have NO Tq Steer....
The 9-5 need more hp!!!!
Yes AWD would be nice..
-John

[Pete B]

Good to see plenty of debate about the 9-5s.

I currently drive a 1996 900 S 2.0 non-turbo. Thinking of changing to a 1999 9-5 so I read any and all posts about the 9-5. The more I read the more I am convinced that it will either be a 2.3 lpt (170bhp) that I will rechip later to 230+++ or a 2.3 Aero that I will leave alone.

I would agree that SAAB made 4 cylinder turbos their own and are way ahead of the game in that regard. The 3.0 litre is not a SAAB engine (neither was the 2.5 V6 that went into the NG900s). All avid Saabers need to watch for insipid GMisation.

On a point of information my ideal 9-5 will be in cosmic blue, be an SE and have leather trim.

Keep up the posting.

Best regards.

[earthbased]

My Mom has a 2000 9-5SE Wagon with V6 and it is a very nice car. She doesn't expect a "fast" car but one with refinement and the V6 is refined. I think SAAB may want to re-introduce the V6 from whatever source as long as it is refined as they try to broaden their market share. Dan

[ragtopcav]

My Mom has a 2000 9-5SE Wagon with V6 and it is a very nice car. She doesn't expect a "fast" car but one with refinement and the V6 is refined. I think SAAB may want to re-introduce the V6 from whatever source as long as it is refined as they try to broaden their market share. Dan interesting debate this, as someone whom runs a V6 I find all the more fascinating, there is a great deal of talk about a genuine Saab engine, I'd love to know which one that is? were not all the inline 4 cyl units originally derived [and of course massively improved upon] from another source. The original 2 stroke has it's roots with another manufacturer too, I wonder if the V4 is a complete in house affair? So what difference does it make if the V6 was made in Merseyside? it is how Saab hooked it up to the powertrain that made it different, is the Cadillac CTS any less American because it's engine is made in Merseyside?
As for the V6 9-5, it really is only an lpt unit, designed to give a phenomenal amount of low rev torque, I'll agree with anyone that it's a shame they never tried a high [or at least higher] output model.
I doubt that saab will be making a petrol V6 model anytime soon but the deisel is still available.

[heavy_t]

The V4 is a Ford engine.