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VTuner
16-04-09, 06:51 AM
VTUNER,

Hello. So stage1 does not necessarily involve any exhaust mods ? Or did I miss something ?

Does the car sound any different in stage0 ?

Is the stock intake and filter fine for either stage ? I have added a K&N drop in air filter, does that make any difference ?

I am considering a cat back exhaust for my car before too long, is a 2.5" Simons exhaust compatable with both stages ? Would a 3" cat back be much better ?

I have a feeling that the downpipe may be more important ? Would it take the car longer to warm up in cold weather with a larger downpipe ? Just curious. We do not see much cold weather here. Cold weather meaning below 60F, lol.

I was also not clear on how the rev limiter, and if the the traction control would be affected ? Has the top speed "nanny" limiter also been 86'd ?

Thanks,
R.S.

Stage 1 is under development, so not final, but I do not intend to bundle exhaust modifications with it. This is because I do not feel it is necessary, so I am not going to require you to pay extra for something you do not need. I do offer some basic customization service with the purchase of my tuning, and adding an aftermarket exhaust has very little impact on the tuning, so you should purchase whatever exhaust you like based on the sound and I will make sure it runs right.

I Recommend the K&N drop-in filter, it works well with the Stage 0 tune.

I am only aware of one modified downpipe running my tuning, Impreza can speak to your question better since he has fabricated and installed his own custom downpipe.

Speed limiter is still present, I have state previously that if this changes it will be a no charge upgrade for existing customers. Rev limiter is not modified with Stage 0. Traction control is also not modified, but torque limits are adjusted.

Cheers,
Brian

Supergilson
16-04-09, 08:54 PM
I might just wait until I get an AWD saab before going to stage 1... I have been considering such a move. FWD gets more and more frustrating every day.


Will you be asking for the old turbo when we upgrade?

North Toronto Punter
16-04-09, 09:42 PM
I will be traveling to Manchester Connecticut (just outside of Hartford)this weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon) and will be bringing along all my tuning gear. If you are reasonably close and want to meet up for a demonstration (Stage 0 or Stage 1:cool:) and/or tune your Saab Aero, drop me an email. I plan on attending as many Saab conventions this summer as possible on the east coast, so there will be other opportunities later this year.

Cheers,
Brian

Brian, have you given any thought to travelling up 'North' -- with your gear in tow?

Not a 'convention' per se but the Saab Club of Canada is having a Track Day ['Enhanced Driving School'] at Shannonville, Ontario on May 8 (an hour or so East of Toronto). A great Course, by the way. Always well attended.

And any other interested Folk most welcome too!

Please PM me if you (or any others) are interested.

BTW: Our President is one of the moderators here ['SaabScott'] and Organizers of the event [I'll be there too -- with my car ;)]

VTuner
17-04-09, 05:56 AM
Brian, have you given any thought to travelling up 'North' -- with your gear in tow?

Not a 'convention' per se but the Saab Club of Canada is having a Track Day ['Enhanced Driving School'] at Shannonville, Ontario on May 8 (an hour or so East of Toronto). A great Course, by the way. Always well attended.

And any other interested Folk most welcome too!

Please PM me if you (or any others) are interested.

BTW: Our President is one of the moderators here ['SaabScott'] and Organizers of the event [I'll be there too -- with my car ;)]

If you have at least 3 members who would like their Aeros tuned I can make arrangements to be there. If there is more interest I can offer a group dicount.

Cheers,
Brian

goSAAByourself
17-04-09, 09:31 AM
If there is more interest I can offer a group dicount.

Cheers,
Brian


Now you say something about group buys. :roll: Hope that continues into stg 1.

1000101
17-04-09, 10:27 AM
I would love to get in on a group buy (since I'm planning a wedding), but I live in MI... Can we work something out? :D

BWhelan
17-04-09, 10:44 AM
I will be traveling to Manchester Connecticut (just outside of Hartford)this weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon) and will be bringing along all my tuning gear. If you are reasonably close and want to meet up for a demonstration (Stage 0 or Stage 1:cool:) and/or tune your Saab Aero, drop me an email. I plan on attending as many Saab conventions this summer as possible on the east coast, so there will be other opportunities later this year.

Cheers,
Brian

What Saab convention would be this weekend?

cconely
17-04-09, 12:10 PM
Two words: LOVE IT! Not quite night and day difference, more just-before-sunrise and high-noon difference. and absolutely fantastic! I can't say I'll be going back to stock anytime soon except for a few data logging runs, and when I have to take her to the dealer. otherwise, she's all Vtuned, all the time!

still grinning,

Chad.

Welcome to the family Chad!

You should receive your Stage 0 order by Wednesday. I was out putting a bit more spring in my Aero today as well, but I think ballistic might be a more appropriate term for Stage 1 :o.

Cheers,
Brian

VTuner
17-04-09, 12:46 PM
What Saab convention would be this weekend?

No conventions this weekend, just traveling on business.

VTuner
17-04-09, 12:54 PM
Now you say something about group buys. :roll: Hope that continues into stg 1.

This currently only applies to events where I am physically present and tuning a group of vehicles at once. It saves me time to do it this way, so I can pass on some of that in savings. I also have a tuner shop license from HP Tuners, so If you do not want the hardware to datalog or swap stock tunes I can offer a substantial discount if you bring your car to me or meet me at an event.

Cheers,
Brian

SaabScott
17-04-09, 02:28 PM
If you have at least 3 members who would like their Aeros tuned I can make arrangements to be there. If there is more interest I can offer a group dicount.

Cheers,
Brian


Yeah ... the driving schools would not be a place for this sort of thing.
The folks getting their cars tuned would want to be able to try them out and they just wouldn't be able to do that.

goSAAByourself
18-04-09, 11:42 PM
A little off subject but, given any thought into tuning for E85?

North Toronto Punter
19-04-09, 02:03 AM
"Yeah ... the driving schools would not be a place for this sort of thing.
The folks getting their cars tuned would want to be able to try them out and they just wouldn't be able to do that. "

Probably best then to find another, more dedicated occasion than the 'Saab Club of Canada Driving School Day', for explicit demonstration/multiple tunings. I'll try to round up some interest 'up here' (otherwise Mohammed will need to go to the Mountain!) and get back to you as appropriate in private message.

[That being said, nothing prevents you from coming up for the 'Driving School Day' for it's own sake (accommodates the Experts as well as the more rankish amateurs -- like me). You may still whet appetites! And squeeze a tune or two in...;) before you have to return home...] .
************************************************** *****
BTW: Just this week, over at SaabsUnited there was a post from a chap called 'Johan' who makes the following claim (unsubstantiated) against (presumably) VTuner:

"No, just software is not enough to safely extract 320 hp from that global GM engine. To begin with, the MHI TD04-15TK turbocharger is not capable to supply enough air to the engine for 320 hp within safe turbo speeds. Also, the fuel injectors appear to lack capacity."

[I guess the fact that you're doing it is proof enough against his post!]

VTuner
19-04-09, 06:38 AM
A little off subject but, given any thought into tuning for E85?

Yes, but only a little. The fuel requirements are greater for E85 tuning so to take full advantage of the potential power gains we need bigger injectors. I might develop an E85 tune that is lower power for stock injectors at some point though. I do not find E85 at the pumps around here though, but maybe I need to look harder.:roll:

Cheers,
Brian

goSAAByourself
19-04-09, 06:47 AM
Yes, but only a little. The fuel requirements are greater for E85 tuning so to take full advantage of the potential power gains we need bigger injectors. I might develop an E85 tune that is lower power for stock injectors at some point though. I do not find E85 at the pumps around here though, but maybe I need to look harder.:roll:

Cheers,
Brian


Might be a good side project inbetween stg 1 with the larger injectors youll be putting in anywho. Assuming you do find a pump. Id have to say a good chunk of those running 11-10sec 1/4mi are running an e85 boosted tune.

Either way, keep us informed on stg1 progress. I may have to fly you out for a night to get some dyno tune time with ya to get the most out of it without having any air up here.:)

VTuner
19-04-09, 11:06 AM
I will be traveling to Greensboro NC next week and up to Virginia (Martinsville VA). Send me a note if you live in the area and want to meet up, or tune your Aero!

The Denso Iridiums came in last week (no time to install them yet) and Bosch Motorsports is looking up the appropriate replacement injectors to support 400+hp. I sent them the Bosch OEM injector numbers last week (I finally got the part numbers). It is definitely a Bosch part, but they did not have detailed information on this particular injector and had to submit a request to the Bosch Automotive Technologies division. I hope to hear back from him next week.

Cheers,
Brian

technog0d
20-04-09, 10:18 AM
Brian,
Tell me if you get a chance to stop though NJ. I am right off of the turnpike.

Naked Bee
20-04-09, 08:58 PM
I have a 500awhp DSM running on E85 with 1150cc/min injectors and a wally 255hp pump, my idc's are in the 90's and my pump is maxed. It takes roughly 20% more fuel flow with E85 compared to E15. But she sure loves timing 20deg across the board!

SAABRoma
20-04-09, 10:35 PM
I have a 500awhp DSM running on E85 with 1150cc/min injectors and a wally 255hp pump, my idc's are in the 90's and my pump is maxed. It takes roughly 20% more fuel flow with E85 compared to E15. But she sure loves timing 20deg across the board!

What ????
One more time please. Its a little hard to believe. Please elaborate

Naked Bee
21-04-09, 09:33 AM
Sorry I know that was out of the blue but since we were on the subject of E85 I thought I'd throw out a little info. Please remember this is on a 2.0L 4cyl setup and not a 2.8L 6cyl which would have different variables. So you wouldn't need 6 1150cc injectors, since you are running 33% more injector to begin with it would be more like 750's to make 500whp on E85 that is.

lmpreza
21-04-09, 12:12 PM
I'm not at all shocked at needed 1150's for 500whp on e85 through a 4cyl.

Heck, I ran 800s to make 332whp on 103 octane through my WRX. I was probably in the 70% IDC range on those.

93_vector
28-04-09, 04:11 AM
VTuner, this question has been troubling me for a while now.
It is claimed that the tune will allow the car to do 0-100 in 4.4 seconds, so how can the car only run a 1/4 mile of 14.0 flat?

Cars that pull such low 0-100 times usually run considerably faster 1/4 mile times.

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why.

Thanks

VTuner
28-04-09, 04:45 AM
VTuner, this question has been troubling me for a while now.
It is claimed that the tune will allow the car to do 0-100 in 4.4 seconds, so how can the car only run a 1/4 mile of 14.0 flat?

Cars that pull such low 0-100 times usually run considerably faster 1/4 mile times.

I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious as to why.

Thanks

The 0-60 question is in my FAQ on my website. There are lots of variables in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile, not the least being driver skill. The 6 speed manual transmission requires 3 shifts in the 1/4 mile, and each shift comes with a delay while the boost rolls on and off. I notice that This delay is particullarly long from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. I have not seen a time from anyone with a stage 0 automatic in the 1/4 mile, but I bet they can get into the 13s even though there is more drivetrain loss simply because the auto can hold boost during shifts and reduce this lag. If you look at dragtimes.com, Nick's 500hp 9-3 only ran 13 flat. The performance on the highway is where Saabs shine, not so much in the 1/4 mile.

Cheers,
Brian

93_vector
28-04-09, 07:51 AM
Thanks VTuner, that makes sense.
Also, when you apply the tune to a turbo X, I understand that there will be greater driveline losses, but is there is there much of a power loss compared to the FWD version?

2.8T----

Aero - 188kw 350nm

Turbo X - 206kw 400nm

VTuner - 239kw 550nm

loplop
28-04-09, 10:50 AM
The 0-60 question is in my FAQ on my website. There are lots of variables in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile, not the least being driver skill. The 6 speed manual transmission requires 3 shifts in the 1/4 mile, and each shift comes with a delay while the boost rolls on and off. I notice that This delay is particullarly long from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. I have not seen a time from anyone with a stage 0 automatic in the 1/4 mile, but I bet they can get into the 13s even though there is more drivetrain loss simply because the auto can hold boost during shifts and reduce this lag. If you look at dragtimes.com, Nick's 500hp 9-3 only ran 13 flat. The performance on the highway is where Saabs shine, not so much in the 1/4 mile.

Cheers,
Brian

This is one reason why 5-speed WRX's can often be much quicker in the 1/4 than the 6-sp STI's... Too much shifting.

On the road, the 6-speeds perform better.

stripedrex
28-04-09, 11:48 AM
Plus we have no idea how hard the 1/4 mile run the car was pushed. One thing I also noticed with this turbo, most of the meat / torque and pull is on the lower RPMs. Flat out the shiftpoints might not be ideal for drag, again this goes to driving skill to hit the right window of shifts. I bet with Brian's stage 1 where he's opening up the top end a bit you'll see better 1/4 miles. Either case this isn't the car you bring to the drag strip on a regular basis =). There are other cars with better gearing, rwd or awd, and wider powerband for that. That being said I'm working on convincing my wife to trade in her FWD aero for an AWD to justify stage 1 =p.

saab19
28-04-09, 12:17 PM
Plus we have no idea how hard the 1/4 mile run the car was pushed. One thing I also noticed with this turbo, most of the meat / torque and pull is on the lower RPMs. Flat out the shiftpoints might not be ideal for drag, again this goes to driving skill to hit the right window of shifts. I bet with Brian's stage 1 where he's opening up the top end a bit you'll see better 1/4 miles. Either case this isn't the car you bring to the drag strip on a regular basis =). There are other cars with better gearing, rwd or awd, and wider powerband for that. That being said I'm working on convincing my wife to trade in her FWD aero for an AWD to justify stage 1 =p.

you know, it's safer in the winter/snow with awd;)
just trying to help

stripedrex
28-04-09, 04:20 PM
HAHA Thanks!

Couple of things for anyone else doing the same:

AWD Safety (XWD is based on the latest Haldex)
Better warranty
Onstar
15 degree turning bixenons
She likes the older body style better BUT now she wont scrap the aero lip all the time
Hmm, anything else? =)
OFCOURSE, relating to this post, the VTuner tune will be badass with it! She's bothered how FWD can barely handle the 400lb/tq not even at standstill but slow speeds =p

loplop
29-04-09, 10:03 AM
Personally, I'd switch to a Subaru STI or Mitsu EVO if you want big power. You'll get more aftermarket support, more community support, more "known good" configurations to start from.

I also like the FWD 9-3 better than the AWD. I already have the STI, and when we added a fam car the FWD 9-3 was, to me, more fun and more "Saab." A little extra boost would be nice, I agree... But if I want stupid power I'll just work the STI over.

Just a counterpoint.

goSAAByourself
29-04-09, 10:10 AM
Brian, know anyone from Wyoming that has your tune? I got a number from a guy at work today that claims this guy is a "saab guru" and has his currently at 360hp and has a "tuning box" that he uses to change the car configurations.

Im not stating anything might be wrong, but hearing his description made me think of you right off the back, just in the wrong state.

stripedrex
29-04-09, 10:14 AM
That's so odd, that's the second person in the past 2 days to tell me FWD is more fun that AWD?! Ironically I have a built Forester STI so I hear you on the aftermarket support. Couple of points, I find the FXT AWD WAY more fun to drive than the FWD Saab. I put HOURS into installing aftermarket parts and some $ to do my Forester XT to STI conversion (suspension, turbo, etc) and I'm making 292hp / 337tq to the wheels. All I did to my wifes 9-3 is flash VTuners tune and it's pushing 280hp/345tq (according to Brian's graphs) and requires much less in aftermarket changes not to mention it's queiter and more livable daily. Granted the VF39 is MUCH more fun in the high RPMs and the lighter forester is more nimble on the turns now (I prefer FXT for local driving, 9-3 for trips). Point is the result was instant. And I know you might argue cost but I got an 07 Aero with 14k miles for 20k used!

For arguing FWD is more fun, how is that so? I'm a guy that likes to drop the hammer around corners and with AWD that's exhilarating. With FWD it just plows forward. Launches too are aggravating with FWD trying to maintain traction (With VTuners upgrade it's just silly lol). What are good points for FWD cars in regard to fun? I would argue RWD to be more fun than AWD but the fun factor is dangerous lol (rear kicking out).

lmpreza
29-04-09, 11:57 AM
FWD is not more fun. I'd take my Turbo X with the vtuner flash over my mom's FWD aero with the vtuner flash any day.

Much more nimble and fun to drive.

As a former subaru guy myself (450bhp WRX, 20G powered), I don't know how ANYONE could say a FWD saab is more fun than that.
Love my saab, but seriously? Understeer? Torque Steer? Wheelspin? I love smokey tires as much as the next guy but taking the AWD rex through the twisties was a hell of alot more fun than doing the same thing in a 9-3 or 9-5 aero.

BostonX
30-04-09, 12:27 PM
I posted a 0-60 time based on data logging from dashhawk - after taking a look at the actual log of the run on the computer it became apparent that the time reported was wrong. At the 5 second mark the log show an instantenous acceleration of about 7-8 mph and drop off of RPM to 0. So obviously something happened to software. When I get a more reliable run time I will post again.

saab19
30-04-09, 12:38 PM
I enjoy my RWD much much much more than the FWD saab I had, or any other FWD car I've ever drive, for that matter

North Toronto Punter
30-04-09, 01:08 PM
I just got a Dashhawk and used the 0-60 feature. I got a 5.01 on my best run. Custom is VTuner with K&N Drop In.

Holy Jumpin'!!!!

Please, say more (Either here or on the 'TurboX Automatic...' thread ;)).

loplop
30-04-09, 03:03 PM
FWD is not more fun. I'd take my Turbo X with the vtuner flash over my mom's FWD aero with the vtuner flash any day.

Much more nimble and fun to drive.

As a former subaru guy myself (450bhp WRX, 20G powered), I don't know how ANYONE could say a FWD saab is more fun than that.
Love my saab, but seriously? Understeer? Torque Steer? Wheelspin? I love smokey tires as much as the next guy but taking the AWD rex through the twisties was a hell of alot more fun than doing the same thing in a 9-3 or 9-5 aero.

That's exactly the point! The Saab is NOT a rally car. Hey, I didn't say a FWD Saab was more fun than a Subaru. What I said was I preferred the FWD Saab to the XWD Saab.

To each his own. The XWD Saab doesn't handle as well, nor is it as quick as, my Subaru STI. If I want big power, or stupid fun, I pick up the STI keys. If I had my druthers, I'd have a Cayman or Boxster S for when I wanted a truly fine handling machine. Haven't made it there yet.

When we decided to sell our SUV and buy a car/family hauler, started looking at Saabs, and settled on Saab, I looked at all available options. To me, a longtime Saab owner, Saab's are about real-world performance with a healthy dose of comfort and practicality. They are not a competitor to the STI, but a competitor to an all-around sport/luxury sedan.

The XWD was fine. Certainly a nice system, and easier to drive than the STI. Not as fun. The STI is far more visceral, has more grip, far more feel, and more adjustability on the throttle.

Shockingly, to me (a huge RWD fan), the FWD Saab was more fun. It felt lighter on its feet, and ran through backroad twolane twisties at 6-7/10's with a more agile and alive feel. I don't drive the Saab at 10/10ths, and feel no need to do so (10/10ths is reserved for circuit driving, for me). It felt just as quick as the XWD while underway on real roads. In my spirited driving I see way more connect-the-dots 45-75 mph two lane roads. And on these roads, the lighter FWD felt more nimble. XWD felt more planted, heavier, and more dull.

I have no doubt the XWD can be quicker to launch, and burn up a backroad a few tenths faster. But for us, this was of no consequence. Feel was most important, time down a road was irrelevant, and so the FWD Saab won out.

Now that we've owned it for ~1500 miles, I'm convinced I made the right decision. Can I break 'em loose? Absolutely. There's one particular turn near my house which involves a 90-degree bend over somewhat broken pavement. The inside front lights up every time. I snake down a right-left into a big lefthand, fast sweeper, where the FWD Aero sticks like glue with no understeer whatsoever. The slight wheelspin I get at the beginning of that sequence, along with the quick shake of the wheel (yep, there's still a little torque steer), reaffirms it's a machine I'm driving... It's all great fun, and I leave with a grin on my face.

As I said, to each his own. If you are dead set on a Saab, and want big power, XWD is a better starting point. But then, I'd recommend the STI as an even better starting point...

stripedrex
30-04-09, 03:19 PM
It's all good man, I see your point. But my reason to get the XWD on the Saab is not just big power but just fun in general (I do the same type of driving you described with a reduced result in regard to fun =), still fun just missing something with FWD). Now granted a slightly lighter FWD Aero may out do an XWD Aero (shorter stopping, lighter so on certain turns maybe a tad faster) but overall the actual feel of the car will be much improved.

Now to say just pick up the other keys doesn't really apply in my opinion. If I can have all my driving experiences across the board be more fun at minimal cost of course I'll opt for that. Even if you want to argue having the kids in the car the XWD system in regard to rain, snow etc will have better active safety overall. Just drive slower. And I also agree that I wouldn't get a 9-3 for big power, but the fact of the matter is VTuner makes good power attainable with a reliable tune at low cost. That being the case it's simple to be opportunistic and utilize that. If I can trade in my used FWD for a used XWD without a lot out of pocket along with the other benefits then it's not a matter of FWD, RWD or AWD. It's a matter of logic for me. Clearly however 400lb/tq will struggle on a FWD platform at lower speeds. And clearly an AWD 400lb/tq car that with XWD will be grins compared to an FWD 250tq car. Clearly if it's financially attainable I should switch to XWD with this tune! That's just how my logic works lol. Don't want to continue this argument I definitely get your point. I just disagree (my opinion) overall on the FWD being remotely fun =). It may perform better in regard to track times and driving skill but fun is a whole different measure. And even saying a particular brand car isn't for fun doesn't work for me either. You're talking to a guy that made a Stage 2 STI out of a Forester =).

And yeah sure I can get an STI (I already have one in a box). But oddly enough an Aero used will be cheaper and to get the STI used to the same power as VTuner's tune will cost more (downpipe, exhast, tune). Not to mention less tickets and attention. I don't race people, with STIs people just race you.

loplop
30-04-09, 04:08 PM
No argument from me, we all have different priorities and butt-dynos :cheesy: I was just pointing out one dude's thoughts on why FWD could be a viable choice.

And truthfully, while I like the STI experience a lot, I'm also moving on from the Subaru scene. I'm not a street racer, and I don't relish straight-line speed. STI is fun, but I'd like more finesse. It's all about priorities... If power is one, Saab will certainly get you there. If handling is one STI is a better choice from the factory. In any case... We all get closer and closer to our "ideal" after trying all sorts of platforms, don't we?

Have fun.

Aleki
30-04-09, 06:26 PM
hey brian, have you considered advertising your tune on e-bay? You may find some extra sales from people that might not know about this site, and the live.com cashback would be a sweet incentive to buy for those of us who are trying to save money.
A couple of positive feedback's to prove this tune is legit and your business could boom ;)

BostonX
30-04-09, 08:23 PM
bad log from Dashhawk means my 0-60 time I posted earlier today above is bogus (see edited post)- when I get a chance to test again I will hopefully post a reliable number... sorry

VTuner
01-05-09, 06:45 AM
hey brian, have you considered advertising your tune on e-bay? You may find some extra sales from people that might not know about this site, and the live.com cashback would be a sweet incentive to buy for those of us who are trying to save money.
A couple of positive feedback's to prove this tune is legit and your business could boom ;)

Ebay fees are unreasonable; I would have to charge more to list on ebay, so your savings might not be realized. I have invested in upgrading my website and e-commerce options (no longer paypal based) to provide the best value I can at my current sales volume. I do have an ebay account, but I have not used it in years.

Cheers,
Brian

Supergilson
03-05-09, 08:50 AM
Do you think we'll ever get this engine up to 500hp?

retiredmd
04-05-09, 11:57 AM
I enjoy my RWD much much much more than the FWD saab I had, or any other FWD car I've ever drive, for that matterWell, I guess you did not drive the best FWD vehicle!
Some 10 years ago, Honda imported a limited production variant of its Integra called the Type R. This was simply the most "buttoned-down" FWD vehicle I have ever driven-and I have driven and raced many cars over the years. I raced my son's Type R on various tracks, including Homestead and RR, embarrasing many RWD vehicles in the process. Turn-in, rotation, the ability to steer with the throttle and induce very controllable rear-wheel drifts and oversteer were unbelievable. And, I know something about this having more than 40 years of formal racing experience (from NHRA days racing my 427 Yenko Camaro and Motion Performance 454 'Vette to Club Racing on tracks such as the "Ring" in Germany to serving as Instructor at various BMWCCA and PCA events).

loplop
04-05-09, 12:30 PM
I owned an '00 PY ITR (#892) which I ran in auto-x and trackday events for years.. Loved loved LOVED that car. I stupidly sold it, and have kicked myself ever since.

Simply one of the best out of the box track cars I've ever owned, and that includes my current '07 Subaru STI. The ITR was so well balanced, in all directions of its envelope. Just a "perfect storm" of intelligent tweaks.

What a car...

9-3gotboostAERO
04-05-09, 01:28 PM
Well, I guess you did not drive the best FWD vehicle!
Some 10 years ago, Honda imported a limited production variant of its Integra called the Type R. This was simply the most "buttoned-down" FWD vehicle I have ever driven-and I have driven and raced many cars over the years. I raced my son's Type R on various tracks, including Homestead and RR, embarrasing many RWD vehicles in the process. Turn-in, rotation, the ability to steer with the throttle and induce very controllable rear-wheel drifts and oversteer were unbelievable. And, I know something about this having more than 40 years of formal racing experience (from NHRA days racing my 427 Yenko Camaro and Motion Performance 454 'Vette to Club Racing on tracks such as the "Ring" in Germany to serving as Instructor at various BMWCCA and PCA events).


it was the best fwd vehicle in its time. no way can it keep up with the MS3 or cobalt ss turbo. they handle like gods for fwd.

retiredmd
04-05-09, 07:46 PM
it was the best fwd vehicle in its time. no way can it keep up with the MS3 or cobalt ss turbo. they handle like gods for fwd.
Having driven a 2008 Cobalt SS, several points must be made. I came away mightily impressed with the Cobalt; it is one of the best "bang for the buck" machines available. Its ability to lap MOST tracks faster than the Type R is NOT due to superiority in steering, chassis or inherent "goodness", it is due to a superior power-to-weight ratio. This HP and (especially) torque advantage allows the Cobalt to walk away from the Type R in the straights; in the twisties, it is a different matter. The Cobalt's steering is numb-simply devoid of feel and feedback. The ITR's steering offers excellent feel/feedback (it can be driven by the fingertips), and a much faster, almost instantaneous input response that seems telepathic. Turn-in is also superior in the ITR. Once I took a line in the ITR, mid corner corrections were unnecessary; this was not true in the Cobalt. When pushed, the Cobalt exhibited little lean and plow, the ITR absolutely none.
I was present when CompTech (SF Bay area) evaluated the ITR (they were modifying my NSX) preparatory to developing after-market equipment. The stock ITR turned .92-.93G (standard skid pad) and 69.4 MPH standard slalom time-these on 15 inch wheels and 55 series tires. Checking a recent Cobalt road test shows the slalom speed to be comparible, but a lower lateral acceleration of .88G-these on 18 inch wheels and 40 series tires. When CompTech changed the ITR to 18 inch Volk Racing wheels and 40 series tires, it turned .94-.95G and 70.6MPH.
While the ITR may not be as fast as the Cobalt, it offers a more no-nonsense, exhilirating, race-car like driving experience "out of the box".

9-3gotboostAERO
04-05-09, 10:20 PM
the R was also immensly lighter because, well it had nothing in it.

dont get me wrong, the R was a great car, but these new balts lapped race tracks faster then Sti's... that says a lot.

retiredmd
05-05-09, 10:24 AM
[QUOTE=loplop;1509202]I owned an '00 PY ITR (#892) which I ran in auto-x and trackday events for years.. Loved loved LOVED that car. I stupidly sold it, and have kicked myself ever since.

My son shares your regret having sold his ITR several years ago. On the other hand, I often become nauseated when realizing the present value of two "muscle cars" I owned: 1970 Yenko 427 SC and 1969 Motion Performance Phase III 454 Corvette. Of course, this same philosophy also applies to the baseball cards we tossed around and discarded in the 1950's. I had a number of Mickey Mantle And Willie Mays rookie cards!!

loplop
06-05-09, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE=loplop;1509202]I owned an '00 PY ITR (#892) which I ran in auto-x and trackday events for years.. Loved loved LOVED that car. I stupidly sold it, and have kicked myself ever since.

My son shares your regret having sold his ITR several years ago. On the other hand, I often become nauseated when realizing the present value of two "muscle cars" I owned: 1970 Yenko 427 SC and 1969 Motion Performance Phase III 454 Corvette. Of course, this same philosophy also applies to the baseball cards we tossed around and discarded in the 1950's. I had a number of Mickey Mantle And Willie Mays rookie cards!!

Yep, my dad has a similar story. My grandma sold his Mantle/Mays/etc cards for a buck when he went to college... Didn't think he wanted them anymore.

We still have the Bob Feller game-worn outfit, tho. Huge Indians fans...

I really do miss that ITR. My STI is so much faster, for sure... But the ITR was so good, so balanced, and so easy to drive fast. I was able to absolutely school some pretty darn fast 911 turbo's at Mid Ohio running a bone stock w/race rubber ITR. Tracks are more driver than car, of course, but that ITR worked for me and not against me like some cars.

Still, this being said... I think I like the Boxster S better than the ITR. Just as telepathic. At least on the road burning I've done, I've never had one out at Mid Ohio. I'd like to. There was this one Boxster S that I just couldn't pass...

But yeah, ITR was and still is one of the best FWD packages ever. It did a lot with 1.8L of NA fury. And as you said, 15" tires of the day!!

Now all THAT being said... I would love to drive a VTuned 9-3 with a Quaife. How much rubber can we fit under these things??

stamonkey
06-05-09, 09:12 PM
I've got a quick question. Has anybody had any warranty work done on their vtuned car? I see that you can quickly reflash the ecu back to its stock form, but would the dealer be none the wiser?

If I was OOW I would purchase without a question, but since is this the first Saab I've had with a warranty, I'm going to milk it for all its worth.

goSAAByourself
06-05-09, 10:55 PM
Chances are the dealer will take care of most warranty work without looking to see if you have done any ecu modifications. Now if you end up burning up a piston or something like that, then you're sol'd.

North Toronto Punter
07-05-09, 12:12 AM
Now if you end up burning up a piston or something like that, then you're sol'd.

Or blowing your tranny (scr*wed, I'd say!)

Our Finnish colleague '2.3i-16' has made some very important points in respect of automatic transmission integrity (which I have reprinted on the parallel 'BSR upgrade for TurboX Automatic? ' thread -- and certainly apply here).

'Prophylactic' oil changes -- at 'severe use' level MINIMUM -- must be adhered to. And that goes equally for the transmission fluids (automatic especially) as the engine.

@ Brian: Do you prescribe a frequency for transmission oil changes (automatic...or manual)?

Energy_AZ
09-05-09, 09:57 PM
I've got a quick question. Has anybody had any warranty work done on their vtuned car? I see that you can quickly reflash the ecu back to its stock form, but would the dealer be none the wiser?

If I was OOW I would purchase without a question, but since is this the first Saab I've had with a warranty, I'm going to milk it for all its worth.


I have not had warranty work done on a vtuned car. I have had warranty work done on a BSR tuned car....and the dealer knew about the tune, and didnt care because it was totally unrelated to the problem I came in for.

Dont ask/dont tell. But if your dealer carries the philosophy that an ECU flash will instantly void the warranty - find another dealer.

retiredmd
10-05-09, 08:24 AM
[QUOTE=loplop;1510951][QUOTE=retiredmd;1509983]

I think I like the Boxster S better than the ITR. Just as telepathic.

Certainly correct; however, it is most illuminating that you compare a FWD vehicle to a RWD, mid-engine sports car!
There is nothing like rotating a properly sorted mid-engine car. While the Boxster S and Cayman S models are well-balanced, terrific machines, my greatest auto related "epiphany" took place in early 1991. I purchased a 1991 911 Turbo from Champion Porsche by phone in the morning and was scheduled to complete the paper work and pick-up the car later that day. On the way to Champion, however, I passed Acura of Pompano just as the first NSX was delivered. Very curious-and mindful of the terrific reviews the NSX garnered-I stopped and was granted a test-drive. This car was so incredible that I purchased it immediately I returned to the dealership-and cancelled the 911 Turbo. This car remains with me today; I will never sell it. Over the years, I modified the car through CompTech and Dali Racing adding coil-overs, sway bars/bushings, rear subframe enhancement,Volk Racing wheels, Brembos, a host of engine/clutch/flywheel/differential mods, 6 speed tranny, weight reduction program (to 2800 lbs), etc. This car's steering response is something beyond telepathic and makes even the excellent Cayman S seem sluggish by comparison. When we lived in San Diego several years ago, I joined the local PCA chapter in a run through the canyons outside of San Diego; I drove the NSX, my son drove my 1997 911 TT. No one could keep up with me (including modified Boxster S models) through the very tight "twisties". Of course, the 911 TTs were much faster in the "straights".

loplop
10-05-09, 10:27 AM
Nice! They have held there value well, too. Everyone knows they're golden. I've never driven one; only ridden shotgun in a '97-ish NSX a Honda Engineer friend brought over.

I sure wish the "new" NSX program wouldn't have been cancelled, although it seemed to be spiraling out of control a bit WRT power/etc. Perhaps the new, more cost-concious Honda will bring back the V6 MR configuration when the economy turns north again.

Saab content: good question (above) on fluid changes. Someone mentioned on another thread that the 6MT was not drain/refillable (sealed unit). Can anyone confirm? That's a bummer, if so. Always good to keep the fluids fresh if you up the power.

NinjaZX6R
22-05-09, 08:52 PM
Hey guys/girls,

I swear I remember a few pages back that someone was saying that their CD player went berserk on them after the flash. Today, I think I solved that mystery.

I took my car to the dealer a few days ago to fix a rear door locking mechanism, but flashed it back to stock just in case they went for a test drive :nono; After flashing back to stock, once I turned the car back on, the CD player was making a real racket. I got worried, as well as the other member who posted here a few weeks ago, that it was chewing up CD's or something. Actually, it was just checking to see if any disks were in each slot. When you put a CD in, it makes a certain noise and it did that six times as I had six discs. Since it basically resets the whole car's computer, it was just doing the normal check. All was well.

Today, got the car back and I'll second what everyone else who has this tune has said - going back to the stock tune makes it feel like something was wrong with the car. Just driving it two miles to the dealership made me depressed. Driving it home today, all I could think about was grabbing my laptop and taking the muzzle off this angry dog! Okay, that was cheesy, but you get the point :) Hope I didn't sound too much like a salesman there, but hearing all this dealer/warranty talk made me feel like I should speak up today and let y'all know that nothing came of the tune in regards to warranty.

Cheers,

-Collin-

North Toronto Punter
01-08-09, 10:23 PM
I've posted often (asking more questions than providing answers...) on various threads but have now put my money and mouth together.

I purchased VTuner for my Turbo X [Automatic] one week ago (9500 km). About 400 km on the tune.

I have not sat the car on a Dyno yet..but the change is palpable. She sails from, say, 60 km to 120 km (and beyond) in a flash. Without invoking 'Sport' mode on the tranny -- and with A/C on (it's hot and humid in Southern Ontario!).

Brian has been exemplary in providing feedback (though I confess I struggled initially with some of the instructions for setup :) ).

I've sent a set of logs to Brian and he's noticed some knocking with the 91 octane gas that is the 'premium' norm here in Ontario (yes, Sunoco has a 94V but there's not always a Sunoco readily available). He's preparing a new tune for me with me altered retard (probably 4 or more degrees).

I thought the car was strong 'stock' (and well beyond the Audis, Bimmers, and Mercs I had shopped in the equivalent price category) but now I would say the car is in M3 or C63 territory (from what I recall from my last test drives of those machines...and if the weather was bad -- XWD to thank -- there would be no contest).

I whole heartedly recommend the tune to other X and automatic Aero owners. I will be changing fluids at a 'severe use' frequency however [I refer the interested to the 'BSR upgrade for TurboX Automatic?' thread http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155785].

reign
02-08-09, 02:02 PM
I've posted often (asking more questions than providing answers...) on various threads but have now put my money and mouth together.

I purchased VTuner for my Turbo X [Automatic] one week ago (9500 km). About 400 km on the tune.

I have not sat the car on a Dyno yet..but the change is palpable. She sails from, say, 60 km to 120 km (and beyond) in a flash. Without invoking 'Sport' mode on the tranny -- and with A/C on (it's hot and humid in Southern Ontario!).

Brian has been exemplary in providing feedback (though I confess I struggled initially with some of the instructions for setup :) ).

I've sent a set of logs to Brian and he's noticed some knocking with the 91 octane gas that is the 'premium' norm here in Ontario (yes, Sunoco has a 94V but there's not always a Sunoco readily available). He's preparing a new tune for me with me altered retard (probably 4 or more degrees).

I thought the car was strong 'stock' (and well beyond the Audis, Bimmers, and Mercs I had shopped in the equivalent price category) but now I would say the car is in M3 or C63 territory (from what I recall from my last test drives of those machines...and if the weather was bad -- XWD to thank -- there would be no contest).

I whole heartedly recommend the tune to other X and automatic Aero owners. I will be changing fluids at a 'severe use' frequency however [I refer the interested to the 'BSR upgrade for TurboX Automatic?' thread http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155785].

This is amazing information and reinforcement for a local. I'm an 08 XWD Aero owner and this is what I really wanted, an auto TX or Aero XWD to give this feedback. I'm close to purchasing this tune as well, just a matter of timing now. As you stated, I am also running on 91 octane gas, so I will most likely need a revised tune just like yourself :cheesy:.

NinjaZX6R
02-08-09, 03:07 PM
This is amazing information and reinforcement for a local. I'm an 08 XWD Aero owner and this is what I really wanted, an auto TX or Aero XWD to give this feedback. I'm close to purchasing this tune as well, just a matter of timing now. As you stated, I am also running on 91 octane gas, so I will most likely need a revised tune just like yourself :cheesy:.

Make that one more person who needs a revised map for 91 octane. I hate California gas!

Quick update for me: I've been running mine for about six months now and have put about 10k miles on it. Still just as great as the day I flashed it. For those of you with a 6spd, watch that damn rev limiter in first. I've been hitting it a lot lately because I swear the tach needle can't keep up with the actual revs! That probably makes me sound like an idiot, but it's true.

I'm going to give Brian a million kudos for tending to us less fortunate folks with crummy gas. Way to go a step above and beyond.

-Collin-

Supergilson
02-08-09, 06:48 PM
woah... so the fact that my CD player will not work might be from the ECU flash??? I use a separate mp3 player anyways, but it would be nice to have the cd player working.

NinjaZX6R
03-08-09, 01:16 AM
woah... so the fact that my CD player will not work might be from the ECU flash??? I use a separate mp3 player anyways, but it would be nice to have the cd player working.

Highly, highly doubt it. The ECU flash can cause the CD player to cycle through all six discs and I suppose that could have damaged it, but even so that would be a manufacturer's defect because it would do the same thing if the dealer were to reset the ECU like they commonly do after doing any work.

-Collin-

the_widowmaker
19-04-10, 01:20 AM
hi vtuner

i'm very interested in getting a stage 0 but would like to find out more before ordering.

i plan to track my car occasionally and live in a highly variable climate (australia).

what is the AFR you tune to to be safe?

what max boost you run for stage 0?

my car is still under warranty so want to be safe and want any mods to be completely undetectable.

we have 98RON fuel and i already have a k+n panel filter.

thanks





I leave the idle conditions close to stock, but from just off idle and higher there are many changes other than full throttle. I remap many parameters over the entire rpm/load range, including cam timing, throttle response, boost, AFR and spark advance which will alter performance under part throttle as well as full throttle.

Cheers,
VTuner

Scrummbled
25-04-10, 11:00 AM
ok what is the best way to contact or get reply from the vtuner....money is burning my pocket....:lol:
come come, where art thou

the_widowmaker
25-04-10, 11:13 AM
just send him an email at his website..
he takes a day to get back or so. he's pretty quick

Scrummbled
25-04-10, 11:17 AM
just send him an email at his website..
he takes a day to get back or so. he's pretty quick

yes i did that already like two days ago...lol im just waiting.

the_widowmaker
25-04-10, 11:26 AM
what did you want to know?
i've been in touch with him...

Scrummbled
25-04-10, 11:56 AM
well being new i have many ?'s first would be i dont have a laptop but im willing to purchase something to assist notebook/laptop but i need to know the operating system needed. Would a notebook help?

how do one communicate with him phone or email.
is there anything in our future to raise the speed limit
again i have many more but i guess this are the most important so far, is anyone else inquiring to maybe get a group buy....hmm

BadBrains
25-04-10, 12:00 PM
yes i did that already like two days ago...lol im just waiting.

Believe it or not, even tuners might take a day off on the weekend. ;) I'm sure you'll get a reply during business hours.

BadBrains
25-04-10, 12:03 PM
well being new i have many ?'s first would be i dont have a laptop but im willing to purchase something to assist notebook/laptop but i need to know the operating system needed. Would a notebook help?

how do one communicate with him phone or email.
is there anything in our future to raise the speed limit
again i have many more but i guess this are the most important so far, is anyone else inquiring to maybe get a group buy....hmm

http://www.vtunersaabs.com/

the_widowmaker
25-04-10, 12:18 PM
yes you'd need access to a laptop to install the software then upload the maps to your car.

check out google for vcm suite or hp tuners..that's the hardware you get with the pack.

i'm in australia so i just email the dude.

i'm still doing research myself.

speedlimit wise, the last i check, i believe it hadn't been done yet but bsr i think unrestricts it. are you going to go that fast though?

well being new i have many ?'s first would be i dont have a laptop but im willing to purchase something to assist notebook/laptop but i need to know the operating system needed. Would a notebook help?

how do one communicate with him phone or email.
is there anything in our future to raise the speed limit
again i have many more but i guess this are the most important so far, is anyone else inquiring to maybe get a group buy....hmm

Supergilson
25-04-10, 12:28 PM
it's a little off the subject, but has anybody been able to use windows 7 with HPT?

I cannot get it it install drivers for the port. had to continue to use my old PC with vista...

mikesul
25-04-10, 01:18 PM
I got the drivers from the CD and put them in a thumb drive. Then got W-7 to accept them manually. They don't seem to load off the H-P CD. Didn't have that problem with XP3 or Vista.

HardKore
25-04-10, 07:39 PM
it's a little off the subject, but has anybody been able to use windows 7 with HPT?


I cannot get it it install drivers for the port. had to continue to use my old PC with vista...


I got the drivers off the HPTuners site. I don't think they were for Win 7. I think they were for Win Vista or it didn't say. But I installed the drivers manually via Device Manager window. Works fine.