Retro fit 1989 16v Turbo to 1980 turbo

[mumsaab]

Hi
Just joined this site am very interested in other megasquirt conversions as that is exactly what I am doing right now. To give a bit of history I have a wrecked 1989 cab 16v turbo(that I flipped) and a good body 1980 3 door turbo that has a blown head so I decided to put the 1989 motor into the 1980 No ECU here therefore the purchase of the megasquirt, whilst the motor was out I put on a trigger wheel onto the crank to convert ignition to crank timed ignition so at the moment I am in the process of wiring the megasquirt to the motor. I expect to be able fire it up next July, time permiting. Other mods include taking both the hubs and brakes and therefore the rear axle including the anti sway bars from the 89 cab. Light weight flywheel, big cams(Swedish Dynamics) and lowered springs.

[ejenner]

I have SD cams. I'm pretty sure they're just regrinds of the original Saab cam. Therefore... not much different to the original Saab cam... you can see they're regrinds because they have SAAB stamped on them. SD updated their spec recently though - so maybe things have changed?

There are a few megasquirters on here. You're in good company.

When you say 'next July' - do you mean in 3 months... or 15 months?

[mumsaab]

The cams were not an exchange they were bought outright so I was able to compare the standard with the SD cams. They are different visually, anyway the proof is in the pudding ie when i start it this July.

[ejenner]

yes - you do buy them outright... and they are different, but not by much. The issue with a regrind is that you can't add anything to the cam lobe. So if you want the valve to stay open longer by adding a lump to the cam then this kind of change isn't possible.

[IronJoe]

yes - you do buy them outright... and they are different, but not by much. The issue with a regrind is that you can't add anything to the cam lobe. So if you want the valve to stay open longer by adding a lump to the cam then this kind of change isn't possible.

Why not? The local shop here (one of the best on the west coast) does this all day long. Weld some material on the top of the lobe and re-grind it down to the new spec.

[ejenner]

wouldn't that cost more than starting with a blank? Would it be reliable? I guess you can do anything if you want to... but I've never heard of anyone doing that before.

[IronJoe]

It's very common actually. And yes, much cheaper than starting with blanks. That will be the route I go when it's time for cams.

EDIT:
Pic from a satisfied customer.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l316/qmorley/035.jpg

[mumsaab]

Looking through the various project cars I see I have a long way to go. The ideas, knowledge and experience that is available for comment or even trying is simply staggering. I am impressed with all those other guys with their project cars, makes mine seem rather backward at the moment.

However, I press on with my porject. Have installed the trigger wheel with sensor and the EDIS coil. I am thinking of taking an idea from the 99 project and cutting an access hole on firewall to access trigger wheel. Once this car is done I have another 1988 Cab (turbo to replace the one that I flipped) and converting that to megasquirt with trigger wheel I figure the easy way would be to cut the access hole and instal trigger wheel that way rather than taking the whole motor out.

Will upload some picts of present project shortly
cheers

[ejenner]

I think I remember a story about Saab dealers offering to cut holes in customer bulkheads to reduce repair costs for issues down the back of the engine. You could have it done either way... with a hatch in the bulkhead or have the engine removed. Customers usually went for the cheaper option. The trick bit is that the 900 (rather than the 99) has a double bulkhead... first the normal metal layer and then a second plate fixed over the top. You would still be able to get through with an angle-grinder but there will be two layers to cut through instead of one.

[SpecialTool]

Once this car is done I have another 1988 Cab (turbo to replace the one that I flipped)

You rolled a vert? The thought freaks me out, for some reason!

[ejenner]

I spoke to a proper cam shop and the reasons you don't weld camshafts are as follows.

- Weld might contain different material to the original metals and the different materials may cause premature wear, extra heat, ect, ect...

- Heating up the cams to weld on the extra lumps gives you eight chances on each 16v camshaft to melt the camshaft. The camshaft will need to be checked to make sure it is straight after the cam has been welded in 8 different places.

- Heating up and cooling down for the welding may weaken the cam. We all know what happens if your valves aren't moving when your pistons are.

[IronJoe]

Well I can assure you that this place is a "proper shop." I was mistaken when I said it was one of the best on the west coast... it's actually one of the best in the nation.

But I'll let the dyno sheets do the talking.

[ejenner]

None of the issues I mentioned are about output. Dyno or not... makes no difference.

[IronJoe]

Regardless, I would say that if the proper precautions were taken, none of the above concerns would become a reality. I am not planning on a DIY in the backyard, this is professional race-quality best-country-in-world-usa craftsmanship. ;)

But we've gone off topic, and this has nothing to do with the OP's megasquirt conversion or motor swap.

/thread hijack.

[mumsaab]

You rolled a vert? The thought freaks me out, for some reason!
Yes briefly my son notice my wife's 5 door saab with a near bald tyre and a she was goiing on a long trip I change it with the cab two weeks later I had forgotten about the change over and was going rather quickly 170km/hr when I had to brake for a railroad crossing the bald tyre was at the right rear and so it locked initiating a spin which sent the car into a ditch and overturning. Roof was down the windscreen frame saved us. Surived with only a scratch to the side of my head. As it was only 2km down the road from my property we turned the car over and towed it home.
cheers

[mumsaab]

Is anybody driving their turbo with their megasquirt yet? Ie do you need to retain the original apc and wiring?

[mumsaab]

Here is my once lovely Cab
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9885&stc=1

[philjohnhb]

That's nasty, looks like you were very lucky. Shame about the car, looks like it was a very nice Airflow.

[mumsaab]

Just a thought after looking at various modified Saabs these exhaust manifold and downpipe mods are all determined by the position of the turbo right. Well has anybody thought to actually move the turbo into a more logical postion ie along side and down abit of the exhaust manifold here your could have a straight down down pipe and a rather direct exhaust entry into the turbo, the inlet for the filter air would be ontop and the turbo charge air would be at a 45 degree angle to horzontal but pointing to the sidewall If possible this arrangement could yeild even more HP. Perhaps a little too extreme but something to think about mmmmm!!!

[ejenner]

think it's been done before. I've thought about it but decided that having the turbo at the front means you aren't adding a massive amount of extra tubing to the intake system and only suffering slightly with the length of the exhaust manifold. In my opinion... stock position is best.

However, if you were planning to install two turbos... ! then you'd put them round the side. One down below and one a bit higher up.

[mumsaab]

Thanks for the reply njenner is it possible to install two turbos if so what would be the benifits any thoughts on that?

here is my current project the 1980 retro

[ejenner]

yes - totally. But you wouldn't get anything off the shelf. You would have to make the manifold and then obviously you'd need to link up all the intake tubes.

[mumsaab]

[QUOTE=ejenner]yes - totally. But you wouldn't get anything off the shelf. You would have to make the manifold and then obviously you'd need to link up all the intake tubes.[/QUOTE)

Ejenner you are a wealth of information can you quanitfy this ie put a figure to it the difference one and two turbos and what size for the two turbos?

History again I became interested in Saabs after buying and pulling apart a Triumph TR7 motor when looking on internet for parts and information regarding the TR7 i discovered that Saab used the same motor ( same crank bearings actually) then looking closely at the design it was obvious to me that the Saab motor had been designed with more care to longevity ie better oil distribution. When a Saab 2 door 1986 came up for sale nearby, i bought it for my daughter being just 17 she soon ran into another car it was never quite right after this. Anyway that's how I started collecting Saabs

i've scored another one for free a 1984 900i collecting today.

[aerobar900]

Good to see another Queenslander on the board!!

[Saab-Daniel]

A lot of guys have done Megasquirt so far... I'm one of them...
Daniel.

[mumsaab]

Hi Saab Daniel
G'day to the Queenslander.

Am going the whole hog with megasquirt fuel and ignition with the turbo
just positioned the coil and EDIS 4 module picts coming

The 900i picked up yesterday complete car except for coil and front brake pads. Will be able to fix my 1983 SaabGLE (gearbox no good).Next weekend will begin wrecking the 1984 Saab 900i to put gearbox into my GLE.
While engine out put trigger wheel in for future Megajolt ignition.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6949.jpg

[mumsaab]

A lot of guys have done Megasquirt so far... I'm one of them...
Daniel.
Have you documented this process somewhere?
Its ok i found your thread on megasquirt

[mumsaab]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6960.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6961.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6962.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6971.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6972.jpg
Edis 4 ignition parts and intercooler to be connected after i have done the gear box swap for GLE.

[ejenner]

The only reason I really ever thought about twin-turbos was down to the fact that I had so many TE05's hanging around. The fact that so much fabrication would be needed was what put me off the idea. I would've thought a couple of TE05's would make the car perform similar to having 1 large turbo fitted. Not much point unless you have grand plans for small spool-up turbo and larger turbo for the upper RPM's. Or if you had two very small turbos each running from two cylinders and feeding two cylinders. Not much point really.

[mumsaab]

I take your point so I will let that idea die

[ejenner]

Twin turbos are a really good idea on v-configuration engines. One turbo for each bank of cylinders.

[mumsaab]

Twin turbos are a really good idea on v-configuration engines. One turbo for each bank of cylinders.

By the way ejenner I enjoyed reading about your 99 what a great car. I had thought of doing something like that but I missed out on not offering enough for a 99. Anyway, 99 or 900 they are both great cars. Off the track here a little

Next stage is to connect wiring between coil, module and megasquirt

[mumsaab]

Been busy this weekend, pulling a transmission out of one car and putting it in another.
Motor out engine bay washed. Ready for the engine?transmission to be put back.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6990.jpg
Motor and gearboxes.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6992.jpg
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6984.jpg
Donor car which i got for free. Engine is just lying there not attached missing its transmission.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/xave_bucket/IMG_6995.jpg
The brown saab also scored a transmission cooler (courtesy of the Donor car) and a engine oil cooler that i had lying around. Both had to be mounted in appropriate places. Haven't had time to start the car yet and check the transmission out for a number of reason also mainly because i will be needing some DX 111 transmission fluid. Hopefully it will work.

[mumsaab]

Transmission swap done and running, car passed rego after an oil leak at oil filter, now resolved. Car performs sluggishly, i expect it to improve as oils penetrate the transmission and loosen things up. some adjustments to be done on transmission.

[mumsaab]

Well I been really busy lately and have not gone very far with the retro except at installing the intercooler but even that needs further pipes for completion. Have been too busy with my other project the Cab first at replacing a headgasket while that was off needed to replace timing chain sprockets OK had head skimmed lightly, have had to replace fuel pump and AMM as well as a transmission cooler line, engine cooler line and looks like i need to make some further tests on fuel sensors as it is running way too lean gets too hot too quickly plugs are showning lean mixture and the inner cv joints will be replaced next week. So the retro is sitting on the backburner for the moment.

[Donkehote]

Just a thought after looking at various modified Saabs these exhaust manifold and downpipe mods are all determined by the position of the turbo right. Well has anybody thought to actually move the turbo into a more logical postion ie along side and down abit of the exhaust manifold here your could have a straight down down pipe and a rather direct exhaust entry into the turbo, the inlet for the filter air would be ontop and the turbo charge air would be at a 45 degree angle to horzontal but pointing to the sidewall If possible this arrangement could yeild even more HP. Perhaps a little too extreme but something to think about mmmmm!!!


im planning to move the turbo down beside the engine where the battery sits