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There is no replacement for a Saab...

2K views 31 replies 10 participants last post by  Linear Thinker 
#1 ·
So I really don't mean for this to be a rant but I do apologize if it ends up seeming like one.

Anyways, the past six months I have been looking for a more 'cost efficient' car that could replace my Aero. I was looking at all Subarus, Infinitis, Nissans, and even a few Hondas (my previous car was a Honda). So I've probably driven over 2000 miles looking around for a car that fit my needs. Just this past Saturday I finally discovered....there really is no car that can replace my Saab. Everytime I attempted to compare my car to another, it became a complete and utterly failure. So as of Saturday night I have decided that I must keep my Saab and will be forced to love it for all of eternity ;) (or until something major happens...:eek:).

So on to what was killing me about my car. I don't exactly hate the gas mileage, but it does seem to be worse than many other cars in respect to the city. Now, when I say city, I'm talking about stoplights, stopsigns, and multiple parking garages.....everyday. I discovered that as I drove up the parking garages (top floor, 4th floor, everytime is my luck) I averaged around 10mpg. I don't know if that is normal but it really does hurt. What is odd is that I get around 34-35 on the highway and around 22 in basic city traffic. But again, I drive up and down parking garages 3 or 4 times a day.
My next concern was the oil changes. I felt that if I wanted to keep the car in good condition all the time, I would need to follow the book and do fully synthetic every 3000 miles. Since I don't have the best access to do my own oil changes, I discovered the cheapest I could get it done was for $70 each time. This wouldn't be so bad if I didn't drive 20,000 miles a year, but I do.
My last concern is the tires. I currently have Pirreli P-Zero Rosso tires on the '04 Aero rims. They aren't bad tires, but I've had to replace 3 of them (while they were less than a year old) due to various bubbles I received when hitting pot holes. I know this is just bad luck but when the tires cost about $290 a piece installed, it adds up. The worst part about it is that I've only had the car for one year and I've spent twice the amount on these tires than I would have had I had 15" tires.

In order to fix all of this, I came up with these conclusions. I'm going to change my own oil. This is something I'll have to figure out with my time limitations and location. The gas obviously can't be solved, so I'm just going to have to drive less. Don't know how I'll do this, but I'll figure it out. Finally, I'm looking into getting either cheaper tires, or smaller wheels.

So in order to finish all of this I'm going to end in a couple questions. First, are there any suggestions on how you would solve my problems? Would any of the 15" wheels from the 9-3 fit my '01 aero (stock 17's)? Do you know of any cheaper longer lasting tires I could fit on my car?

Thanks in advance, and again sorry for the long post.

Jacob
 
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#2 ·
I feel your pain...i'm in basically the same boat.


Oil changes are not hard at all, and after your first it is amazingly easy

Tires...the only thing i've figured is to find a tire with a high treadwear rating, which as far as i know means it will last longer. You can try any of the online tire places for cheaper tires


but at the end of the day, my Aero is one of the better cars i've driven.
 
#3 ·
I guess I need to look more into the Hr rated tires rather than the "required" z rated tires for our cars. Do you recommend michelins, yokohamas, anything else?

I can understand the oil changes being easy, I just need to find the time. Where do most of you get your oil from? And do you just go to the dealer or a site (like genuinesaab) for your filters?
 
#4 ·
jmcox44 said:
I guess I need to look more into the Hr rated tires rather than the "required" z rated tires for our cars. Do you recommend michelins, yokohamas, anything else?

I can understand the oil changes being easy, I just need to find the time. Where do most of you get your oil from? And do you just go to the dealer or a site (like genuinesaab) for your filters?
Two words, roadhazard warranty
 
#5 ·
jmcox44 said:
First, are there any suggestions on how you would solve my problems? Would any of the 15" wheels from the 9-3 fit my '01 aero (stock 17's)? Do you know of any cheaper longer lasting tires I could fit on my car?
Nope, the 15" won't fit your aero as it will not clear your stock brakes. Aero stock brakes needs 17" wheels to clear.

Bubble on tyres is not due to the car. Likely age or manufacturing fault. The Rossos has pretty soft sidewalls but still the bubbling is not because it's a Saab.

IMO, tyres are not something you would want to save on as these are the only contact between you and the road. Compromising it can result in dire consequences. Cheap long lasting tyres belong to the sedate car category. They tend to perform poorly in the wet and around corners too.

For tyres, you may want to consider the ones with stiffer sidewalls such as Bridgestone RE series.

On the subject of keeing your FC down, consider driving it w/o boosting.
Warning: Doing so will induce sleep...
 
#6 ·
jmcox44 said:
I guess I need to look more into the Hr rated tires rather than the "required" z rated tires for our cars. Do you recommend michelins, yokohamas, anything else?
I've never seen anything that would suggest you need Z rated tires on a Saab.
The highest requirement I've seen would be V rated, but a lot of people will run H.
Keep in mind that it is not just speed that the higher rated tires are good for, but the stiffer sidewall helps with the weight of the car and performance.


As for the fuel mileage issue ... remember, this is a big, heavy car.
It is designed for economy at speed, not around town. There really isn't much you can do about that.
 
#7 ·
Jssaab, I actually have road hazard on all 4 wheels now. When I purchased the car, the previous owner gave me all paperwork of all four tires but discounttire refused to transfer the warranties over. I fought and fought but they said no, thus ending up having to pay full price on the last three tires.

Bernardk, what about 16" wheels, would they fit? And, I really don't blame the car for me having misfortune when it comes to tires, it just sucks knowing that if I hit a bad enough pot hole, which seems to be quite often, the tires gain a lump and give me the rumble all the way home. About driving without boost, I rarely ever push my car. When I'm passing someone or using a short on-ramp for the highway, I typically throw that turbo into action, but again maybe once or twice a week. When I drive, I drive like a grandma. This might be due to multiple speeding tickets in my short driving lifetime, but oh well, I'm used to it now...;oops:

SaabScott, when I went to discounttire the first time they said that my car would be extremely unsafe driving with any tire other than a Z rated tire. Now I must admit that I was very skeptical at first, but since this was a new car to me and had considerably more power than I was used to, I was ready to believe anything. Now please consider what I was saying to Bernard. I rarely drive where performance is actually needed. I do quite a bit of highway traveling and then the typical drives to work and the grocery store. I just need a tire that will last me and give me a comfortable ride on those long trips (1 to 7 hour). I do understand about the gas issue, I guess my next concern is that the car does require premium gas, but I can find a way to manage that.

Thanks guys for all of your help

Jacob
 
#8 ·
Jacob, before you get into changing the characteristics of your car, you may want to give some serious consideration to changing the vehicle itself.

Since Aero's are sought after cars, selling it shouldn't be a problem.

I would recommend that you look into trading down, going to a 9-5 LPT.
More efficient on gas and they use 16's as standard wheels/tires and a lot of folks (myself included) put 15's on in winter.
I still wouldn't recommend a 15" year round, but you could do it in the winter.
 
#9 ·
Jacob

Just go change your tyres.
For 225/45R17, plenty to choose but I like the PS2, CSC3 and the new P-zeros. For stiffer sidewalls, Yokohama Advan Sport, Bridgestone RE01R or RE050R.

Nope, 16" won't do as the aero has 308mm rotors in front so those require at least 17" wheels to clear.

I always felt the aero was more economical than the LPT as the aero's torque comes in at a lower rpm (1.9k). Thereby reducing the need to step on the pedal more
 
#10 ·
SaabScott, I actually went to a total of 4 different dealerships attempting a trade. The highest offer I got was $5500 and the lowest offer I got was $4100...Now since I paid over double that lowest offer a little over a year ago, there was no way I was going to trade it for that little. Also, I don't know if I could get rid of my Aero...I love this car. The styling is great, the heated/vented seats are great, the engine is amazing. I know I'm contradicting my my earlier concerns but I don't want to downgrade. I feel that once I got into an LPT I would really miss my Aero and become very dissatisfied. Again, I know this is probably a dumb choice economically, but I love my car.

BernardK, what do you think about the Yokohama YK520's? They are $50 cheaper than the Pirelli's and they come with a 60,000 mile warranty.
 
#11 ·
Yokohama YK520
Hmm.. we don't have it in my country.

But judging from the tyre profile, they are at most General Purpose tyres. It also has soft sidewalls as they are designed for comfort. You won't be able to attain the claimed longevity of the tyres as the sides will wear out faster due to the load of the saab while cornering. As such, won't think they will last more than 30k miles. And here a disclaimer on the website that the 60k mileage does not cover 45 profile. See here http://www.yokohamayk520.com/

Though the thread pattern may suggest decent wet weather handling, the fact that its designed for longevity, you'll lose out on traction as they are likely to be made of less sticker materials.

These tyres are not meant to be driven fast.
 
#12 ·
Just a couple of thoughts from reading the first post:
  1. You dont need to change your oil every 3k miles, twice that would be fine
  2. 10 mpg suggests a problem - is the car well maintained and serviced
  3. Hit one pot-hole is unfortunate, but kill 3 tyres - either you are asleep at the wheel or live on the moon (craters)
  4. Some 16" saab wheels DO fit over the 308mm aero brakes
  5. Yokos are good grippy tyres but they wear quickly too
 
#13 ·
Chris, which tires would you recommend then? I've been constantly looking at Michelins but wonder whether they are worth the extra cash.

I figured that instead of every 3000 miles I would probably do it around 5000 or 5500. This will require me to do it 3 to 4 times a year which will help significantly in the end.

Which 16" Saab wheels fit? Is there a specific site that has information regarding the internal diameter of Saab rims?

The car was serviced prior to me purchasing it and then I took it in for the 102,000 mile service and discovered that I had already done all of the maintenance required. I guess that leads to an important question I've been thinking about. Do all of you still take your car in for the scheduled maintenances, even if you do all of the work on your car yourself? I'm just wondering if I should still be allowing them to look so I don't get caught overlooking something important. Also, if you do, do you take your car to the dealer or a Saab indie?

And about the living on moon....close. I actually did a lot of driving to Louisiana on I-10, which, if anyone knows anything about that road, is (or was) horribly messed up. The last bubble came from downtown Austin on a basic bumpy road. I do my best not to drive my car while I'm sleeping though...;)
 
#14 ·
jmcox44 said:
And about the living on moon....close. I actually did a lot of driving to Louisiana on I-10, which, if anyone knows anything about that road, is (or was) horribly messed up. ...;)
Yep sorry about that - when I read it back it was a bit strong ;oops:

My pal has a 9-3 with the 308mm brake conversion, I will try and find the pic of his car with 16's on.

Its hard to recommend a tyre, my car eats them so I really would struggle to give you a tip for a longer lasting, more affordable tyre.

Regarding servicing - I do my own oil changes every 5-6k miles and usually change the plugs at the same time.

The car is tuned, well over 350 bhp and I get 30-32 mpg in town and 44-46 on a long run - amazing huh (remember though these are UK gallons) the car is a manual and that makes a huge difference too.

I'll try and find that picture!
 
#15 ·
G
#16 · (Edited)
The manual reads 16 x 6.5 are ok on an Aero. The spare wheel is 16" as well.

The Yokohama YK520 are great tires for touring and make the car handle pretty good. I had 215/55-16 on my lpt and am thinking of getting these tires for my Aero. But I prefer comfort and less road noise over pure performance and ultimate cornering. I am even thinking of "upgrading" to 16" wheels for my Aero. Low profile performance tires are nice on the smooth roads in Europe but not a good choice for many of the roads in the US imo.

The YK520 is only sold by Discount Tire but the thread pattern is similar to the Yoko TRZ. They list the YK520 as a high performance tire.

Another good performance tire are the ContiExtremeContact, they are only about $100 each here in the US.

jmcox44 said:
I rarely drive where performance is actually needed. I do quite a bit of highway traveling and then the typical drives to work and the grocery store. I just need a tire that will last me and give me a comfortable ride on those long trips (1 to 7 hour).
It sounds like a long-lasting touring or performance tire will work out great for you instead of high or ultra-high performance. Here are some reviews including mine on the YK520.
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121321
 
#17 ·
My Bridgestone Potenzas are outstanding for treadwear. You think the 9-5 is bad for wearing tyres, try a c900!:eek:


Keeping your 9-5 will be more economical in the end.
10mpg means something in insanely wrong. When I drive in city hard I still get like at least 14-15mpg.
 
G
#18 ·
woywitka said:
10mpg means something in insanely wrong. When I drive in city hard I still get like at least 14-15mpg.
jmcox44 said:
I discovered that as I drove up the parking garages (top floor, 4th floor, everytime is my luck) I averaged around 10mpg. I don't know if that is normal but it really does hurt. What is odd is that I get around 34-35 on the highway and around 22 in basic city traffic. But again, I drive up and down parking garages 3 or 4 times a day.
He mentioned he gets 22mpg in city driving but 10mpg when driving up in a parking garage. That suggests he resets the computer just to test the mileage he gets in the parking garage. Or am I reading this wrong?

22 mpg in basic city traffic is normal and 34-35mpg on the highway is outstanding. 10mpg driving slowly up a steep incline is not unusual imo.
 
#19 ·
Yes Wulf, you are correct. Before going up the garage one day I decided to reset the ECU and go up the parking garage. Even though my information came from the calculated mpg from the SID, I feel it's pretty accurate when it shows me my other mpg's I drive. I'm not sure why it gets that low in the garage, but luckily I won't be driving anywhere near a parking garage in around 2 months.

The potenza's look like good tires but I've read they wear pretty easily. It could have been a faulty source, but that's just what I've read.

The YK520 tires are the ones I looked at recently and spoke to the Discounttire salesman about. He informed me I would lose performance and my car would be nearing the edge of unsafe...:roll: Either way, they are cheaper and come with a warranty so maybe I'll go and see what the other Discounttire place will tell me.
 
G
#20 ·
jmcox44 said:
The YK520 tires are the ones I looked at recently and spoke to the Discounttire salesman about. He informed me I would lose performance and my car would be nearing the edge of unsafe...:roll: Either way, they are cheaper and come with a warranty so maybe I'll go and see what the other Discounttire place will tell me.
Being a salesman doesn't always guarantee they know what they are talking about. Sometimes they just want to push different tires for a variety of reasons, especially at these large chains. :roll:

Here are 365 customer reviews on the YK520 if you're interested.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...2005&pc=43098&vid=008387&ra=findTireDetail.do
 
#21 ·
Hey bro bubbles in the sidewall of a tire is it having a belt being being broken and it isn't a good thing. ALso I deal with Discount all the time and they have always fixed my tires if they sell that brand even if I didn't buy it from them. So if u have a different one in town then I would try them out too, u just might have been dealing with a butthead. And u can run 16 inch rims with the Aero. When u buy ur next tires just get taller ones that will take more punishment from pot holes. With 16 inch rims u might be able to run 55 or 60 series.
With changing ur oil, if u are running synthetic then i would go about 5 to 6k before I change my oil. Also u can get oil from Wolly World for a good price but DON"T buy there oil filters! I would go to Pep Boys and get a Pure One oil filter, the dealer for a stock one or Napa for a Napa Gold.
 
#22 ·
If I was still in sales and put 20k a year on a car, I'm not sure a Saab or any European car would be my choice. They are just costlier to maintain, and I'd go with Honda or Toyota. Don't really like those cars, but with 20k plus a year mileage, I am thinking absolute practicality and lowest cost to maintain.

Also, with gas prices, as well as the price of everything else going through the roof in this recession that Bush won't admit to, I think it is causing eveyone to reassess expenses. A female friend won't be driving the 90 miles to the shore each weekend this summer with her three kids in her Honda Pilot SUV and she has a FREE place to stay at her parents house. The cost of gas is preventing her from doing this and she will just hit the local municipal swimming pool which is just $150 for the summer and 4 miles from her house.

Thankfully for me, I work out of my house and maintanance is not a big concern on my Aero - but even with the short trips I take, the price of gas has caused to me drive less.
 
G
#23 ·
tmg19103 said:
Don't really like those cars, but with 20k plus a year mileage, I am thinking absolute practicality and lowest cost to maintain.
If you spend so much time in a car, I am thinking fun and enyoing the ride. :D My commute is 60 miles per day roundtrip and I much rather do that in a 9-5 than in an Accord.

I really don't think maintenance is that expensive on a 9-5 after you get a few known problem components replaced ahead of time.
 
#24 ·
I actually hope to be driving only around 10,000 miles a year in the near future. My driving will only consist of to and from work and an occasional trip to the larger airports. I've also begun to wonder whether a second car could satisfy my desires/needs. With say a honda civic as my second car (older civic), I would only be spending a little extra cash to have a car that will make me that money back in the first year of ownership (less maintenance, less gas, just cheaper overall). I've mentioned this to my fiance and she disagrees and feels we should never have more than one car for each of us, but what does she know...;)

The problem with the Discounttire here is that almost every employee is young (probably around 16 to 18) and just doesn't seem care about anything but money. I could just be stereotyping the younger crowd, but it's hard not to when they sit there and play around with the air tools and such. Again, I don't want to assume all Discounttires are like this so I'll go visit the new one and see how I feel there.

Those YK520's seem great, is anyone here with an Aero running these? Any known experience driving with them compared to other tires?

And about those oil filters, the ones from PepBoys, are they as good as the OEM saab ones? How much are they? I have a PepBoys within a minute of my work, might have to drop by there later today...
 
G
#25 ·
You will still have maintenance and wear items on a second car, as well as registration and insurance cost. Plus parking, cleaning etc of 2 cars. Unless your 9-5 is a money pit, you probably end up spending more money with a second car. And you have to drive a Civic :roll: :cheesy:

Do your own research on tires and you'll know more than the kids at the tire place within 10 minutes.
 
#26 ·
jmcox44 said:
Yes Wulf, you are correct. Before going up the garage one day I decided to reset the ECU and go up the parking garage. Even though my information came from the calculated mpg from the SID, I feel it's pretty accurate when it shows me my other mpg's I drive. I'm not sure why it gets that low in the garage, but luckily I won't be driving anywhere near a parking garage in around 2 months.
Cold start, stop and go, and going uphill.. 3 worst conditions for mpg.... no surprise for the rocket high mpg.
 
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