how much to the wheels [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: how much to the wheels


thecanyon2k4
06-02-08, 05:52 PM
Approximately how much hp/tqu does a stock T5 9-3 make at the wheels?

<---too poor to take it for a dyno run.

mike saunders
06-02-08, 06:00 PM
---- I'm getting a strong scent of noobishness....:cool:



Let me rephrase your question in a way that will encourage you to find the answer:


What wheel HP and torque should a stock 99 9-3 make, based on the commonly accepted drive train losses of 12-15 percent?

Bummer 9-3
06-02-08, 06:11 PM
and taking in to account that every car is different

thecanyon2k4
06-02-08, 08:24 PM
---- I'm getting a strong scent of noobishness....:cool:



Let me rephrase your question in a way that will encourage you to find the answer:


What wheel HP and torque should a stock 99 9-3 make, based on the commonly accepted drive train losses of 12-15 percent?

That's what I meant. I posted it from my psp in a rush as it was losing it's wifi connection. Thank you.

Troll_speed
06-02-08, 08:43 PM
That's what I meant. I posted it from my psp in a rush as it was losing it's wifi connection. Thank you.

Sell the PSP to pay for the dyno.

If it's the newer model with the RCA output, I'll even buy it so no need to ebay-it...




:p:p

saab_family
06-02-08, 09:32 PM
noooooooooooob

talkin trash, with a stock 9-3, spending time playing on a psp...

IronJoe
06-02-08, 09:52 PM
The cool thing about this question is that you don't need to know anything about saabs in particular, besides the stock quoted HP and TQ.

Math it up:

185 bhp * (1 - .12) = 162.8 whp (12% losses)

Or

185 bhp * (1 - .15) = 157.25 whp (15% losses)


To go the other way, take the stock HP you get when you sell your PSP and dyno, say, 150 whp:

150 whp * (1 / (1 - .15)) = 176.5 bhp with 15% losses, which would mean you probably need a tuneup ;)


Go easy on the noobs, huh? I was an awful noob when I was first learning :confused: :cheesy:

thecanyon2k4
06-02-08, 10:55 PM
I got the PSP as a gift :p. I'll probably be going in for hsits and giggles in the near future.

noooooooooooob

talkin trash, with a stock 9-3, spending time playing on a psp...

The PSP is invaluable in my long commutes from Jersey to NYC (music, web, games). My 9-3 is stock becuase college tuition > depreciating asset at this point in my life. Oh, and I am a noob because I was asking what people have come up with stock at the wheels? Different cars have different drive train losses; I remember a friend's EM1 being somewhere close to a 20% loss. Of course, this was on a 7 year car.

A question that has been itching me is will an old DI cassette affect the performance of a vehicle? Usually when I do a tune up on an older car, I replace the dizzy and wires - but for mine I just changed the spark plugs (which I need to change because I used some bosch plugs instead of the NGK's)

saab_family
06-02-08, 11:02 PM
DI's are flakey. in my experience (my dad has tons of old saabs) sometimes replacing the DI made them run much much better, others i noticed no difference. if you are looking for a new DI, since your t5 you can run a red one (t5) or a black one (t7). the black ones should be a lot cheaper.

comtrang
07-02-08, 12:04 AM
DI's are flakey. in my experience (my dad has tons of old saabs) sometimes replacing the DI made them run much much better, others i noticed no difference. if you are looking for a new DI, since your t5 you can run a red one (t5) or a black one (t7). the black ones should be a lot cheaper.
Yeah, a DI does make a big difference if it's running like shiit.
But...I only remember hearing of one person say that they run a black DI with no problems; everyone else is usually against it so I don't know if I'd support that advice...

Drew'sSaab
07-02-08, 08:58 AM
DI's are flakey. in my experience (my dad has tons of old saabs) sometimes replacing the DI made them run much much better, others i noticed no difference. if you are looking for a new DI, since your t5 you can run a red one (t5) or a black one (t7). the black ones should be a lot cheaper.

wait we can run a black t7 dic?


drew

Shirozina
07-02-08, 09:15 AM
AFAIK a T5 will 'run' with a T7 DIC but the knock detection is absent so maybe not a good idea for any long term use on a car pushing more than stock power levels.

Corn Cob
07-02-08, 09:47 AM
AFAIK a T5 will 'run' with a T7 DIC but the knock detection is absent so maybe not a good idea for any long term use on a car pushing more than stock power levels.

Does T7 have a regular knock sensor then instead of using the plugs like T5 or is it that T7 just reads the info in a different way.

Shirozina
07-02-08, 10:10 AM
Does T7 have a regular knock sensor then instead of using the plugs like T5 or is it that T7 just reads the info in a different way. Unfortunatley that's as far as my understanding of T7 vs T5 goes.

Vigge
07-02-08, 10:55 AM
Unfortunatley that's as far as my understanding of T7 vs T5 goes.

both T5 and T7 use ions sensing for knock. However there are different componets in the red and black DI which may affect this as issue as well.

saab_family
07-02-08, 07:14 PM
i thought they weren't producing red ones any more? correct me if im wrong, but i thought my dad said he couldnt get red ones any more?

John Z Williams
07-02-08, 08:28 PM
both T5 and T7 use ions sensing for knock. However there are different componets in the red and black DI which may affect this as issue as well.

Is that the main difference? So does that mean if you are not using the saab trionic knock sensing system, like mbc or whatever, you should be able to run a black di no problem, right?

John

lowbudgethero
07-02-08, 08:56 PM
thats a good question since the black ones are a hell of a lot cheaper

sab aero
07-02-08, 09:56 PM
It is not advised to run black DIs on T5 cars from many sources.

Here is an official Saab bulletin:

http://www.swedecar.com/images/photos/IDM.jpg

sab

Corn Cob
07-02-08, 10:03 PM
Is that the main difference? So does that mean if you are not using the saab trionic knock sensing system, like mbc or whatever, you should be able to run a black di no problem, right?

John

If this is true then that is a bad bad thing, take away the ecu's abilty to pull boost with the mbc then take it's ability to pull timing with the black DIC. I think if this is all true it would be suicide to run the car this way. Red DIC's all the way!

P.S. am I overly sophmoric or is it hilarias to keep talking about red and black DICs?

neomagus00
08-02-08, 03:55 PM
P.S. am I overly sophmoric or is it hilarias to keep talking about red and black DICs?
no, it's definitely quite amusing, feel free to laugh :D

John Z Williams
08-02-08, 04:01 PM
I guess there are quite a few people running the black di on the t5 cars that do not use the trionic to control boost or timing. Just like aerodyamic and her nira3 1997 9k aero.

I guess there are many guys across the pond doing it because if you are running a stand-alone or a mbc or ebc, the knock is not important anymore.

I think most of the post against it are the ones still using trionic to control timing and boost.

I run advanced timing for w/m injection and a ebc, so it should not matter on my car.... hhhmmmm, the ignition module thing is the only thing that worries me...

Dang nabit...

John