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Friends 9-3 through a belt, now won't start

1K views 29 replies 8 participants last post by  jwrape 
#1 ·
I am here to help out my friend. He has a 99; Saab 9-3 Automatic. Nice car and all. A while ago now he was driving it home and the Serpentine belt let go. He replaced it and now the car won't start. It will turn over just fine but won't run.
Any ideas what that is? Is there a safety fuel cut off or something. Like I said, it only through the fan belt.
Thanks
Jason
 
#2 ·
Hi, and welcome to the forum. The serpentine belt drives the alternator, Power Steering Pump, Water Pump and A/C compressor only. It should have nothing to do with the car cranking or not. In fact, often times we troubleshoot pulleys and bearing noises by actually removing the belt entirely and cranking the car so that we can listen for noises.

I would say that something else happened when it threw the belt. A sensor could have been disconnected or broken or maybe a vaccuum hose was dislodged.

Does it turn over freely and are there any odd sounds? Does it try to catch at all or does it just keep cranking over and over?
 
#3 ·
Frank_Drebin said:
Hi, and welcome to the forum. The serpentine belt drives the alternator, Power Steering Pump, Water Pump and A/C compressor only. It should have nothing to do with the car cranking or not. In fact, often times we troubleshoot pulleys and bearing noises by actually removing the belt entirely and cranking the car so that we can listen for noises.

I would say that something else happened when it threw the belt. A sensor could have been disconnected or broken or maybe a vaccuum hose was dislodged.

Does it turn over freely and are there any odd sounds? Does it try to catch at all or does it just keep cranking over and over?
Yea, I,knowing a great deal about cars, this one stumped me.
When it turns over it turns over freely, but almost seems like it turns over faster than it did before.
It almost sounds like the timng belt let go and you are just turning over the crank, BUT I can see the timing belt turning and the cams turning, so the timing belt is fine.
We were thinking about it and thought it might be the Crank postion sensor but I can't imagine why it would have failed at that same time.
It's just strange and out of the oridinary.
 
#4 ·
The long (should be red) thing on the top of the engine, held on by 4 screws. I would swap that out and see if that was the issue. They aren't cheap, but give Lee and English Swedish a call down there. In the Saab world, that part, known as the DI or Direct Ignition Cassette, is usually to blame for a no start situation.
 
#6 ·
As usual, we have a complete lack of details:cheesy:

Is this a turbo 4 or a GM V6 ?
Miles ?
Is the servicing up to date ?
Oftentimes, cars that have a breakdown are in poor condition in other unrelated aspects.
IMO, what we have here is a coincidence...unless, if we jump into a far fetched mode, a fragment of the serpentine belt severed a fuel line or an important harness..
Are the plugs wet or dry ?
Compression ?
 
#8 ·
jwrape said:
Yea, I,knowing a great deal about cars, this one stumped me.
When it turns over it turns over freely, but almost seems like it turns over faster than it did before.
It almost sounds like the timng belt let go and you are just turning over the crank, BUT I can see the timing belt turning and the cams turning, so the timing belt is fine.
We were thinking about it and thought it might be the Crank postion sensor but I can't imagine why it would have failed at that same time.
It's just strange and out of the oridinary.
Then, Tweeks Turbo, what is this timing belt thing ....???:cheesy:
Mr Jwrape, please get back to us, there is some confusion..
 
#10 ·
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. The forum didn't send me a email saying I had replies, or maybe it did and my firewall blocked them.
Anyways, it is a N/A motor. Miles are approx. 103k. It is pretty well maitained. He's not the best at mechanical stuff but he gets by with my help.
That Long Red thing on top of the engine, what is it? i am not looking at the car right now and actually haven't seen it since that day but the next time I go over there I will look around.
Is the CPS right there around the fan belt area or is it on the rear of the motor close to the tranny?

Oh, and it does have a timing belt, not a chain. It resmbles a Eclipse GSX motor from the top, with the double Cam gears and the belt. You can see them from the top of the motor on his car, so I know the belt is good and also is turning.
 
#12 ·
jwrape said:
Does anyone have a pic of the where the CPS is located? That would help out a lot to find the little thing:cheesy:
I don't have a picture but it's easy enough to find. Look a few inches to the right and a few inches down from the exaust manifold. It is facing the front of the car about where the engine and transmission meet. There's a black wire coming off of it that connects near the TB.
 
#13 ·
Frank_Drebin said:
I don't have a picture but it's easy enough to find. Look a few inches to the right and a few inches down from the exaust manifold. It is facing the front of the car about where the engine and transmission meet. There's a black wire coming off of it that connects near the TB.
So if it is close to the tranny, then how would the belt affect it? Is there a cable for it that runs accross the front beside the belt or something
 
#14 ·
jwrape said:
So if it is close to the tranny, then how would the belt affect it? Is there a cable for it that runs accross the front beside the belt or something
lol... I never said CPS in my post. I'm just answering the "where is it?" part. :lol:

I would lean more toward items located ner the affected area of your particular car. The evap purge valve, MAP sensor, vaccuum hoses, etc...
 
#15 ·
Frank_Drebin said:
lol... I never said CPS in my post. I'm just answering the "where is it?" part. :lol:

I would lean more toward items located ner the affected area of your particular car. The evap purge valve, MAP sensor, vaccuum hoses, etc...
Oh ok, i have this question posted on 3 different Saab forums, so I prolly got you mixed up with another forum response. I am grasping at straws anyways. LOL!;oops:
 
#20 ·
The "long red thing" atop the engine is the DIC(direct ignition cassette).

The CPS(crankshaft position sensor) is on the "front" of the block behind the exhaust maniold.

I think we have a coincidence here - that the thrown serpentine belt has nothing to do with the no-run.

Just do the usual diagnosis and service work.

A good chance exists that a worn pulley caused the belt problem, so I hope it was changed..
 
#21 ·
Ok, so the car is still down. We checked the fuel rail. We have gas to the fuel rail. We pulled out the coil pack banks one at a time, inserted the spark plugs in them, and angled the plugs ontop of the valve covers and turned over the engine. All 6 of the spark plugs spark when turning over. I poured fuel down into the cylinders and tried to start, it, still nothing.
We checked the timing belts, and both are there intact and moving with the motor. We also took a plug out and checked to make sure we didn't have catastrophic failure, the pistons are going up and down. We also chainged the oil to look for metal in the oil, nothing there.

So, we have fuel, we have spark, we have timing, and no outwardly signs of failures ANYWHERE.
The only other symptoms are that it seems to be turning over faster than before when it was working. The motor just seems to spin over free'er than before this trouble happened.

I have tried everything I can think of. Usually if you have fire, and fuel and air, you will start an engine.



OH, while troubleshooting I found it is a 99' 9-5 TURBO V6 Saab. You help is MUCH appreciated! Please responds as soon as you can.
 
#22 ·
Maybe you can have a mod move this thread over to the 9-5 forum... The v-6 is quite a different engine to the t5 I-4 that came in the '99 9-3.

My guess is the CPS, did you try the multimeter test? The one CPS failure I have had had the same symptoms that you are facing.
 
#23 ·
stamonkey said:
Maybe you can have a mod move this thread over to the 9-5 forum... The v-6 is quite a different engine to the t5 I-4 that came in the '99 9-3.

My guess is the CPS, did you try the multimeter test? The one CPS failure I have had had the same symptoms that you are facing.
But if I have spark, the CPS should be working correct?

The next test we are going to do is a Compression test just in case cause it spins over faster than it used to .
 
#24 ·
I think we have a bent valve issue. All signs poin to that but the timing belts are both on and do not seems to have any distortion. But my thought is that he was accellerating hard when the accessory belt let go and maybe the extra momentum made the timing jump time.
What do you guys think?
 
#25 ·
just a shot in the dark. you said it turns over faster then regular . how was he driving it when he thru the belt? i over reved my 2002 and floated the valves and crashed them into the piston bent them and zero compression. check compresion. easy to change the head. just have to find one!
 
#26 ·
chaseon said:
just a shot in the dark. you said it turns over faster then regular . how was he driving it when he thru the belt? i over reved my 2002 and floated the valves and crashed them into the piston bent them and zero compression. check compresion. easy to change the head. just have to find one!
He was accelerating pretty hard from the entrance of his neighborhood but had already reached about 40mph when the belt let go. I think there is some valve damage.
 
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