Osram Diadem indicator bulbs [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Osram Diadem indicator bulbs


rc89pl
7th December 2007, 10:18 PM
Hi
The nightmare begun. Today with 0 C, (forgot how is it fahrenheits) i wanted to change my indicator bulbs with the new ones from the competitors website from UK.

I took them off, replaced, put back to the place. I turned the lights on and... it didn't work. They were quite different from the stocks so I changed the electricy connector where the bulb goes in. I turned lights on and... all right lights turned off. One fuse was gone. Had to replace it.
Ok, so I changed another electricity connector and it actually worked. The orange parking lights were fine. Though when tried to use turning lights it just stayed without any flash.

Don't buy the "Osram Diadem indicator bulbs
Saab 9000CS, GM900, 9-3, 9-5, 9-3SS
[Diadem PY21W]"

It won't work.

;/

rc89pl
8th December 2007, 01:19 AM
Ok,
sadly i discovered those Osram bulbs are only for european cars.

besides smoking one of the fuses, i smoked something else, that is responsible for making the turn bulb flash when turning. now it stays only in orange while driving.

can You tell me what might be the name of a part that is responsible for it?

seems iam going to use hand while taking turns hah

Jeremy R.
8th December 2007, 01:56 AM
Silverstar indicator bulbs are the equivalent ones for the US, and come in our bulb types, like 1156 and 1157. I'm not sure what went wrong with your car, though.

rc89pl
8th December 2007, 02:03 AM
The back of the stock bulb has something like two silver dots - one connects to one connector, other one connects to another one. The Osram bulb had one dot. In the middle of the Osram bulb there is something like a one wire inside. In stock bulb there are two: one wire for flashing in daytime, another one for turning light.

Tomorrow i will post pics of both bulbs.

Diosnoche
8th December 2007, 08:33 AM
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 (FMVSS 108) regulates all automotive lighting, signalling and reflective devices in the United States. In Canada, the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 (CMVSS 108), and is very similar to FMVSS 108. The primary differences are:

CMVSS 108 requires daytime running lamps on all vehicles made since 1 January 1990, while FMVSS 108 merely permits DRLs
CMVSS 108, through an adjunct called CMVSS 108.1, permits European Headlamps while FMVSS 108 prohibits them.

The European Commission has ECE regulations (119, 113, 112, 104, 99, 98, 91, 87, 82, 77, 76, 74, 72, 70, 69, 65, 57, 56, 50, 48, 45, 38, 37, 31, 23, 20, 19, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, and 1) that regulates all automotive lighting, signalling and reflective devices for European marketed vehicles.

Summary, the lighting systems are different than the North American versions of the same car, so the bulbs you purchased will not work in your car, unless you really do your homework first.

Here are the specs:

This is what you purchased.

PY21W is known as: P21W 12V 21W BAU15S ORANGE-AMBER ECE ( P21W/12V/21W/BAU15S/ORANGE-AMBER ECE )
volt: 12
amp: 1.75
watt: 21
base: BAU15s
m.o.l.: 2.06 inch (52MM)
d.hours: 450

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/bau15s.gif http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/p21w.gif
The DIADEM is an innovative signal lamp with interference coating, which produces yellow light.
Due to the interference coating the DIADEM produces an amber colour when lit and features an opalescent white surface - without the "mirror effect" of normal yellow coloured lights.

The DIADEM supports the cool and stylish look which car designers desire to produce with all cleared and transparent headlamp modules.

The DIADEM is interchangeable with other yellow signal lamps ( in front and in the back of the car) and it is approved for use throughout Europe.


These two bulbs below are common replacements for North American vehicles:

7528 is known as: P21-5W 12V 21W 5W BAY15D ECE ( P21-5W/12V/21W/5W/BAY15D ECE )

volt: 12
amp: 1.75 / 0.417
watt: 21 / 5
base: BAY15d - Double Contact Index Bayonet
glass: S8
filament: C6/C6
fil.res.: 6.86 ohm
m.o.l.: 2.07 inch (52.5MM)
l.c.l.: 1.25 inch (31MM)
d.hours: 1000 / 200


1157 is known as: 1157 12.8V 14V 2.1A 0.59A USA ( 1157/12.8V/14V/2.1A/0.59A USA )

volt: 12.8 / 14
amp: 2.1 / 0.59
watt: 26.9 / 8.26
base: BAY15d - Double Contact Index Bayonet
glass: S8
filament: C6/C6
fil.res.: 6.1 / 23.7 ohm
m.o.l.: 2 inch (50.8MM)
l.c.l.: 1.25 inch (31MM)
i.lumens: 402 / 37.7
cp: 32 / 3
d.hours: 1200 / 5000

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/bay15d.gif http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/c6_c6.gif http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/s8.gif

Read the specs over and compare the bulbs, their not the same, not even the same type of connection.

The I.C.E. Module controls the vehicle lighting, hope you didn't distroy it.

-----------------

This is the Bulb you should have purchased:

P21 5W ( P21/5W )is known as: P21-5W 12V 21W 5W BAY15D ECE ( P21-5W/12V/21W/5W/BAY15D ECE )

volt: 12
amp: 1.75 / 0.417
watt: 21 / 5
base: BAY15d - Double Contact Index Bayonet
glass: S8
filament: C6/C6
fil.res.: 6.86 ohm
m.o.l.: 2.07 inch (52.5MM)
l.c.l.: 1.25 inch (31MM)
d.hours: 1000 / 200

The P21/5W has the same specifications as the 7528 and 1157 listed above in terms of base and electrical contact.

Jeremy R.
8th December 2007, 10:30 AM
This is one of the problems with companies using different bulbs in different parts of the world. When I bought E-Code corner lights, they actually came with the P21W sockets, so that's what I'm using along with Philips Silvervision bulbs. You probably shorted one of the hot bulb contacts to ground, or shorted the two hot contacts against each other. Hopefully it's nothing more serious than a blown fuse, either in the cabin or engine compartment fuse box.

Diosnoche
8th December 2007, 11:22 AM
This is one of the problems with companies using different bulbs in different parts of the world. When I bought E-Code corner lights, they actually came with the P21W sockets, so that's what I'm using along with Philips Silvervision bulbs.

Its not like manufacturers do this on purpose, there are different laws outside the US you know ;)

The e-code lights you bought that came with P21W sockets I think are suppose to be like that, I mean that's how my stock corner lights are, but then again I'm in Canada and Canada allows for the use of E-code lights in Canada. The corner lights only house a bulb that is used when you put the car in reverse and the light turns on, at least that is how mine works. There is no other function for the corner light.

Or are you talking about the turn signal socket? Was that socket based for P21W as well?

Jeremy R.
8th December 2007, 02:57 PM
The E-Code corner lights only have a turn signal. Side-assist reverse lights are illegal in the UK, so they don't have the second bulb further back, but the hole for the socket can be drilled out easily enough.

I'm sure the whole reason for the whole 1157 vs. P21W bulb in the front is that the US requires some kind of orange parking light up front, but they don't in England. Saab did finally start using P21W bulbs in the back of the 9-3, maybe to cut down on parts, maybe because those bulbs are finally available at auto parts stores in the US.

rc89pl
8th December 2007, 03:09 PM
I went to Saab Dealer in my neighborhood. The serviceman guy said that it's wires fault, fuses have nothing to do with it. Though I don't agree with him. He told me to set up an appointment and leave the car for around an hour. at that time they are going to play with dash and check what's wrong with wires.

How could the wires fail, while they had nothing to do with it?
I was just trying to change the bulb, so I think it's obvious that fuse broke.

I've just realized that hazzard lights don't work, as well as turning light flashing. It beams in orange but doesn't flash.

Disnoche - You're perfectly right. Those which You showed match those I was trying to put in.

What should I do?

Diosnoche
8th December 2007, 05:56 PM
I'm sure the whole reason for the whole 1157 vs. P21W bulb in the front is that the US requires some kind of orange parking light up front, but they don't in England. Saab did finally start using P21W bulbs in the back of the 9-3, maybe to cut down on parts, maybe because those bulbs are finally available at auto parts stores in the US.
Completely off topic, i'm curious about European cars in the USA if someone could answer this one. What do the new European cars look like in terms of lighting in the USA? Like Volkswagons, Saabs, Mercedes Benz...? Do they have amber lenses on the front?

The Volkswagons I've seen in Canada have completely clear fronts, no amber anywhere, like the Bora (Jetta) and Passat and they use those DIADEM bulbs that rc89pl was trying to adapt to his car. Mercedes also have no amber on the front, but have amber rear turn signals. What do the American versions look like, do they conform to FMVSS 108?

Diosnoche
8th December 2007, 06:19 PM
I went to Saab Dealer in my neighborhood. The serviceman guy said that it's wires fault, fuses have nothing to do with it. Though I don't agree with him. He told me to set up an appointment and leave the car for around an hour. at that time they are going to play with dash and check what's wrong with wires.

How could the wires fail, while they had nothing to do with it?
I was just trying to change the bulb, so I think it's obvious that fuse broke.

I've just realized that hazzard lights don't work, as well as turning light flashing. It beams in orange but doesn't flash.

Disnoche - You're perfectly right. Those which You showed match those I was trying to put in.

What should I do?

I'm gonna post the wiring diagrams for the lighting system just so you know how complicated it is, if you can use these to solve your problem, then perfect, otherwise, you can see just how complicated the wiring system is and estimate how much that shop might be charging you to trouble shoot the "wiring" in your car.

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2000/pics/1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2000/pics/2.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2000/pics/3.jpg


The bottom pic is of the I.C.E. module, this is the module that controls all the vehicle lighting and is programmable with a TECH2. The turnsignal flasher module is intergrated into this unit.

It look like when you plugged in the single contact based light bulb into the socket it jumped the two contacts inside at the bottom of the socket and shorted the turn signal system with the parking light system.

rc89pl
8th December 2007, 07:53 PM
diosnoche - are You sure it is wiring system involved in this case?

i've just PM'd one guy who... bought same bulbs, with right connectors in... autozone. it actually works in his car ;/

there are volkswagens. there aren't any volkswagons though :)

that's what i don't like in usa. stupid rules. i told myself, when i'll fix those turning lights, i'm putting blue bulbs that flash in white. no more orange.

i'm going to visit another service that specializes in that kind of stuff. maybe it's actually fuses or the connectors.

Diosnoche
9th December 2007, 09:02 AM
There is nothing wrong with the bulbs your purchased, you just purchased the wrong bulbs :nono;

Don't buy the "Osram Diadem indicator bulbs
Saab 9000CS, GM900, 9-3, 9-5, 9-3SS
[Diadem PY21W]"

Dispite what the website part listing stated, you should have investigated yourself and discovered that the correct bulbs that you should have purchased are P21/5W, NOT PY21W.

As I read your original post:

I took them off, replaced, put back to the place. I turned the lights on and... it didn't work.
At this point you just poped in the bulbs without checking the base contact on the new bulbs, you didn't see that they're different from the bulbs that were already in there. With the new bulbs in the socket, you turned on the light and it shorted out the lighting system because the single base contact on the new bulb is the wrong type of bulb, in terms of electrical connection.

They were quite different from the stocks so I changed the electricy connector where the bulb goes in. I turned lights on and... all right lights turned off. One fuse was gone. Had to replace it.
Perhaps when you changed the bulb socket the wiring connection was incorrect. (maybe you put the two +12V wire together, +12V parking lights and +12V Turnsignal flasher, and not one with the -12V ground wire.

Ok, so I changed another electricity connector and it actually worked. The orange parking lights were fine. Though when tried to use turning lights it just stayed without any flash.
The damage was already done from your previous attempt on the other side that may have damaged the signalling system, the flasher unit, which is why the turnsignal no longer flashes.

Look carefully at the base of the bulbs you purchased:
http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/bau15s.gif

Then compare it with the proper bulb:

http://www.geocities.com/diosnoche_2001/saab/bay15d.gif

Do you realize where you went wrong?

I'd recommend putting the wiring back to the way it was, put the original bulbs back and see if it works, if not, then use the wiring diagrams I posted to trace back the signalling circuit to see what could possibly get damaged when the parking light circuit jumps to the signalling circuit.

rc89pl
9th December 2007, 09:08 AM
Diosnoche - thanks for answer.

I was just sure and thought that those bulbs, if listed for saab ng900, are for my car. didn't know they're not forr US cars though. stupid website from UK.

those two parts that are connected to the bulb - i'm going to buy new ones, since i messed up the connectors already. i looked on those diagrams, understand them, but i have no idea where to find each part of it in a car.

Diosnoche
9th December 2007, 09:18 AM
R ead the wiring diagrams again, the locations of all these parts are stated in the diagram

The I.C.E. Intergration Central Electronics Control Module is located under the dashboard, adjacent to the steering column. But there is nothing to see here, this unit is a solid state device, there is nothing that you can do to fix an ICE module unless you're an Electrical Engineer. The ICE module is quite unique in the sense that this device can be programmed with a TECH2 so that the vehicle lighting can be changed to reflect the different lighting laws around the world in which these "World" vehicles can be sold and operated in.

Check all the fuses that are listed on the top of the wiring diagrams and see if any are out.

Diosnoche
9th December 2007, 09:25 AM
I was just sure and thought that those bulbs, if listed for saab ng900, are for my car. didn't know they're not forr US cars though. stupid website from UK.
Its not the websites fault, i'm sure that site doesn't expect to have customers from North America purchase from them, and if they do, i'm sure there is a disclamer written somewhere that they take no responsibility for any damage caused by inproper use or error on the site. The ownis should always fall on the buyer to ensure they are purchasing the correct item required, translation, do your own homework first, then contact them with what you need ;)

rc89pl
9th December 2007, 07:32 PM
I'm going to try the relay and to change the gray connector where bulb goes.

besides dealership, where can i get that big orange relay under the hood, next to fuses?

Diosnoche
9th December 2007, 08:43 PM
Your best to try at a local auto wrecker yard for those types of parts, check the yellow pages.

rc89pl
14th December 2007, 05:45 PM
Ok. So everything is clear now.

1. I didn't check fuses thoroughly - one 15sh was burnt and had to replace it - now everything works fine. I bought another orange relay but it was unecessary.

2. If You plan going to Saab Dealer - don't go to Watertown, MA. Those guys after 5 minutes looking at my car claimed that fuses have nothing to do with it and told me that I have to bring saab to them and they will play under the dashboard with wires. I guess it would cost me almost what I spent for an exhaust. lol.

3. Don't order bulbs from UK. E L K p a r t s didn't know that they are selling bulbs not compatible with american cars. on their website it says only "Please note: These bulbs will fit all Speedparts clear DRL/indicator clusters except for ART606W and ART608W for classic 900 models." however they offer a refund.

Diosnoche - thanks for all schems and advices.

I feel so great with turning lights, flashing again :)

Diosnoche
14th December 2007, 08:22 PM
It is nice that Saabs have so many fuses for each individual system, most systems are isolated on there own circuit so troubleshooting an electrical fault is kinda easy when compared to say a Ford that puts all the lighting circuits under a single fuse, or combines the radio with the interior lighting, ect.

The only problem with having so many fuses is that there is just so much more that has to be investigated, carefully with a good eye.