A short 9-7x Editorial

[Saab D aka Volvo D]

For those on the fence with the 9-7x...

I would say I am one of the strongest defenders of brand identity. I hate the fact that Volvo owns Ford, and I am less than thrilled that GM owns Saab.(I hate Ford period).
Cars with character are what really turn me on, and the very second I can afford to operate 2 vehicles, I will imediately start my search for a 99 Turbo or a 900 SPG.
Now, there is a lot of hate on the 9-7x because it isn't a real Saab. That can be debated. My point is this...it is just an SUV. An SUV is fun to drive like a tractor is fun to drive. Don't get me wrong, I think driving a tractor is fun, but it isn't like driving a sport sedan. If it was, I think there would have been at least 1 of them at Carlisle this year. I searched far and wide and only saw Saab cars.
There is no reason to hate the 9-7X. It keeps money coming in to Saab. It creates new Saab fans, maybe not Saab enthusiasts, but fans nonetheless. It helps to ensure that we have a 9-3 Black Turbo coming...and it will be fast, all wheel drive, and a force that Volvo will not compete with.

[bumperquip]

... I hate the fact that Volvo owns Ford...
You were drunk when you wrote this, right?

[timmehhhhhh]

Black Saab Rules!-Jerry Seinfeld


If you can prove that Seinfeld actually said this I will consider leaving this drunk post up :lol:

[Saab D aka Volvo D]

wow. i won't cover my tracks on that one. talk about a wrong reversal. Yeah, Volvo owns them alright :roll:

The black saab rules qoute is from an episode of Seinfeld. If you watched the show you'll know he drove a black 900 convertible.

[SaabScott]

I am going to add something here ...


On Saturday I was lucky enough to participate in a test drive event put on by Saab Canada.

The 9-7X (as good as I already knew it was) blew me away by it's handling and poise on the track.
At no time did I feel that it was getting away from me and handled everything I threw at it without any issue ... and I was pushing it to the limits they gave us for the 9-3 and 9-5 ...

Both of the instructors (certified racers) we also most impressed with the handling characteristics of the 9-7.

[The Alchemist]

Check my signature and you'll see that I like well handling cars. My T/A has eibach springs, Koni adjustable rebound shocks, larger front and rear sway bars, 'vette zo6 brakes, poly bushings everywhere, well you get the point. I drive the car the way it was meant to be, and I've gone through my fair share of tires getting my full 1g of laterial grip out of it.

Before getting my 9-3, I drove an Explorer and was literally scared to drive it around turns because it felt so unstable and top heavy. Granted, it was ten years old, but I babied it around because of how unstable it felt. No wonder so many people rolled these things. In stark contrast to that is the 9-7x. Granted, I don't push it the way I do the t/a, but I've never felt scared going around turns at normal speeds. I drove probably a dozen different sport utility vehicles when we were in the market, and nothing gave me that solid, planted feel like the 9-7 did. It drives comfortably pushing it through turns on an on ramp to back road switchbacks.

For everyone bashing the 9-7, saying it's not a true Saab, go drive a trailblazer or envoy, then get into the saab and see how it feels.

Fact is, the high and mighty 9-3 sports sedan is just a chevy malibu with a turbo charged four banger. (I don't feel that way or else I would have bought a malibu).

[Soli Europa]

Fact is, the high and mighty 9-3 sports sedan is just a chevy malibu with a turbo charged four banger. (I don't feel that way or else I would have bought a malibu).

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.

[The Alchemist]

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.

My point was that the 9-3 is built on the same platform as the Malibu, just as the 9-7 is built on the same platform as the Trail/Voy. I own both a 9-7 and now a 9-3 because of the things that makes Saab's what they are. The attention to detail, and the sportiness of driving. In no way do I think a 9-3 is comparable to a malibu and in the same manor don't think a 9-7 is in the same league as the trail/voy's.

[SaabScott]

My point was that the 9-3 is built on the same platform as the Malibu, just as the 9-7 is built on the same platform as the Trail/Voy. I own both a 9-7 and now a 9-3 because of the things that makes Saab's what they are. The attention to detail, and the sportiness of driving. In no way do I think a 9-3 is comparable to a malibu and in the same manor don't think a 9-7 is in the same league as the trail/voy's.

It is nice to hear someone say positive things about both of these vehicles.

Having spent considerable time in both while not owning either, I can attest to the fact that they are fantastic at what they were built to do.

And having just watched 2 professional drivers toss the 9-3SS Aero around the way they did with passengers on board gives new insight to the design elements Saab built into the car.
And comments from the crowd (who just drove the same cars) we're "it's a race car" and "holy #&$*" and "unbelieveable".

And to hear a professional driver say that he was most surprised with the 9-7X and the SportCombis ... that is very high praise indeed.


I will say it one more time ... if you have any doubts about any car in the current or past line ups ... DRIVE THEM!

[Soli Europa]

I followed a Burgundy colored 9-7 for about 15min on the freeway today and untill I got in front of it I thought I was following a Trailblazer - I am sure these SUV's DRIVE nice but they LOOK like a Chevy. Unfortunatley, LOOKs do play a big part in buying decisions and that might be a clue to why 9-7 sales are floundering.

[moose72]

I followed a Burgundy colored 9-7 for about 15min on the freeway today and untill I got in front of it I thought I was following a Trailblazer - I am sure these SUV's DRIVE nice but they LOOK like a Chevy. Unfortunatley, LOOKs do play a big part in buying decisions and that might be a clue to why 9-7 sales are floundering.

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

[Soli Europa]

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

[Soli Europa]

Was the SAAB emblem on the tailgate not a clue?

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

[The Alchemist]

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.

If you look at a saab 9-3 from the rear, it looks like every other sedan on the road. Nothing really special going on in the back of a standard 9-3. Granted the aero's have dual tail pipes, but the standard 9-3's look like a jetta or malbiu from the rear.

[Butters]

Hmmm... It's like putting a Porsche emblem on a VW beetle - the profile of the car defies the badge - especially from 2 or 3 cars back. I'm sure the 9-7 drives nice though.... Cheers.
Well the Porsche - Beetle connection isn't that far fetched you know. Guess who designed the original Beetle.

:lol:

[Butters]

On the contray, the 9-3 doesn't look like a Malibu (inside or out) and still is made in Sweden - the 9-7 just can't shake the family resemblance (Trailblazer) and that is it's biggest detractor.
"Still", being the word of the day. In the not too distant future, it will be made in Germany.

[Soli Europa]

If you look at a saab 9-3 from the rear, it looks like every other sedan on the road. Nothing really special going on in the back of a standard 9-3. Granted the aero's have dual tail pipes, but the standard 9-3's look like a jetta or malbiu from the rear.

What do you mean? 2 tailights, a trunklid (bootlid) and a bumper? Common this is silly! no lights are interchangeable on the 9-3, no sheet metal is shared and the visual stance is completely different. The 9-3 was designed as it's own car and shares only the platform - different drive line, interior, glass and sheet metal. The 9-7 comes off of the same assembly line as the Chevy in Moraine, Ohio. GM started with a fully built trailblazer and added a SAAB package to it (grille, suspension, wheels & tires etc)- it has Chevy driveline mostly Chevy sheetmetal, Chevy glass, mostly Chevy interior etc. This is more like what GM did with the 9-2x (Facelift and rebadge)than what SAAB and Alfa did with the 164/9000 (Platform Sharing) but I do admire your fierce loyaly to the 9-7x.

[moose72]

What do you mean? 2 tailights, a trunklid (bootlid) and a bumper? Common this is silly! no lights are interchangeable on the 9-3, no sheet metal is shared and the visual stance is completely different. The 9-3 was designed as it's own car and shares only the platform - different drive line, interior, glass and sheet metal. The 9-7 comes off of the same assembly line as the Chevy in Moraine, Ohio. GM started with a fully built trailblazer and added a SAAB package to it (grille, suspension, wheels & tires etc)- it has Chevy driveline mostly Chevy sheetmetal, Chevy glass, mostly Chevy interior etc. This is more like what GM did with the 9-2x (Facelift and rebadge)than what SAAB and Alfa did with the 164/9000 (Platform Sharing) but I do admire your fierce loyaly to the 9-7x.
Actually, you are mistaken. The 9-7 shares NO sheetmetal with the Chevy. It does share sheetmetal with the Buick Rainer, however, but there are distinct differences, obviously in the front, but also the rear. The interior is nowhere near the Chevy, or the Buick. Have you ever even seen it? Do a little homework. Have a nice day.

[Soli Europa]

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

[SaabScott]

And I say again ... hold your superficial opinions to yourself until you have driven it.

Drive it side by side with a Trailblazer or Envoy ... your opinion about the performance of the 9-7X will change.

There is no question where the platform started ... let's get past that and move on.

[The Alchemist]

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

GM has always been about taking a fairly popular platform and making certain changes to atrract other audiences. It makes good business sense.

Case in point, look at another vehicle I own, the Firebird. For years GM marketed both the Firebird and Camaro. Essentially the same vehicles, but talk to owners of the two vehicles, and you'll see that they are extremely loyal to their vehicle.

Your argument is like saying that an Escalade is just a Tahoe with a different front grill and wheels. They are very different in terms of ergonomics, driver comfort and overall driving experience.

Now if you were to argue that the Trailblazer and Envoy are identical, I could see that. Those two are essentially design differences, but very similar right down to options and costs.

Go down to your chevy or gmc dealership and drive one of the two, then go over to the Saab dealership and drive a 9-7x, you WILL notice the difference immediately. I know because I did exactly that. The two dealers were right next to each other and it was to the point that we drove the 9-7x, then the Envoy, then the 9-7x again, and finished in the Envoy one last time.

We kept going back to the Saab for the same reason someone would buy an Escalade over a Tahoe or Yukon. Sometimes sheet metal and options don't define a car.

[moose72]

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

Where's the Trailblazer?

[timmehhhhhh]

See the attached photos - I rest my case.

Please read through this thoroughly:

http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2006/11/another_defence.html

[Butters]

Just a Trailblazer with the ignition key between the seats?

[Thirsty9000]

Only glaringly obvious parts sharing I see on the dash is the climate control and that gawky looking gear selector. I'm not a big fan of SUV's only because I'm not too keen on fueling them. But I've heard no bad reviews of a 9-7x. Most reviews are more along the lines of "damn, why aren't the rest of the platform mates this nice!'' Truth be told, my only fault with it is that there is no Aero version with a turbo (or two) on the 4.2 I-6. (as all proper saabs should have a turbo IMO) Or even the 4.5L Duramax TurboDiesel that I saw in Autoweek would be awesome. But as I don't see myself ever even considering purchasing one, I don't allow myself to judge it too harshly. In short, it's a good truck, if it's not what you're looking for, fair enough but your different criteria don't make it any less of a truck. Just makes it an excellent truck... for somebody else.

[SaabScott]

Just a Trailblazer with the ignition key between the seats?


Obviously you haven't driven the 9-7X. :roll:


Because if you had, you would have noticed at least some of the changes:

Those mechanical changes they all keep talking about in those reviews are listed in full below:


To ensure that the new 9-7X meets those expectations, the following enhancements were made to the chassis and suspension systems of GM's award-winning midsize SUV architecture upon which the 9-7X is based: - Ride height lowered by one inch

- Additional braces between the cross members and frame
- Firmer springs and shocks
- Stiffened and quicker steering
- Larger front anti-roll bars
- Larger brakes
- Specific Dunlop tires
- Limited-slip differential
- Specifically, here is a list of characteristic Saab driving dynamics and the enhancements that were applied to the 9-7X to achieve the desired results:

Steering (for on-center feel, feedback and precision)

- Toe-in adjusted from 0.1 degrees to 0.2 degrees
- Caster increased an average of 0.5 degrees
- Revised steering valve characteristics including a larger torsion bar
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- Intermediate shaft isolator stiffened 33 percent
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Additional braces between cross member and frame at the front

Steering (for response and linearity)

- Steering gear ratio lowered to 18.5:1 from 20.3:1
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Additional braces between cross member and frame at the front
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Added front lower control arm bushing travel limiter

Handling (for stability)

- Toe-in adjusted from 0.1 degrees to 0.2 degrees
- Caster adjusted from 3.5 degrees to 4.0 degrees
- Steering gear mount stiffened from 6,000 N/mm to 9,000 N/mm
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Standard limited-slip differential

Handling (for linearity and predictability)

- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Rear suspension upper link bushing stiffened from 4,600 N/mm to 7,000 N/mm
- Rear suspension lower link bushings stiffened from 3,200 N/mm to 4,600 N/mm

Emergency handling

- Standard StabiliTrak
- New 18-inch Dunlop tires provide better stability and higher lateral stiffness
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Standard air spring rear leveling
- Standard limited-slip differential
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Ride height lowered by 25 mm (approximately one inch)

Ride comfort (for body motion and control)

- Front and rear springs stiffened by 15 percent
- Revised shock absorber settings for improved body control (average 70 percent more damping at the front and 20 percent more damping at the rear in the V-8 and 40 percent at the front and 10 percent at the rear in the L-6)
- Front anti-roll bar diameter increased to 36 mm from 34 mm
- Standard air spring rear leveling
- Ride height lowered by 25 mm (approximately one inch)
- Front suspension upper shock mount is stiffer by 33 percent

Brakes (improved brake performance, response time, pedal feel and travel)

- Front caliper material changed from aluminum to stiffer cast iron
- Piston diameter increased to 48 mm from 45 mm
- Brake booster diameter reduced to 240 mm from 260 mm
- Master cylinder diameter increased to 27 mm from 25.4 mm
- Brake pedal ratio reduced to 3.6:1 from 3.8:1


I am going to say one more time ... drive the damn vehicle or save your comments.

[The Alchemist]

SaabScott, maybe it's just me, but I think Butters posed the question as a doubting statement, hence the question mark. The internet is tough sometimes to interpret what people mean to infer or say.

But maybe he meant to say:

Just a trailblazer with the key in the center console? I don't think so.

And I guess that's why he posted the pictures.

We added the running boards to the 9-7x this winter, and it looks really good now. Adds a cleaner, sportier look to it.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=FFFFFF&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2090000-2090999/2090224_18_full.jpg

[Butters]

Yes, I actually own one. And I am very happy. The 9-3 by the way is veeeery similar to the Cadillac BLS. That's how GM works.

[Soli Europa]

SaabScott, maybe it's just me, but I think Butters posed the question as a doubting statement, hence the question mark. The internet is tough sometimes to interpret what people mean to infer or say.

But maybe he meant to say:

Just a trailblazer with the key in the center console? I don't think so.

And I guess that's why he posted the pictures.



Scott's reaction to Butters post proves the point that the resembelance of the 9-7x in the photo's to the rest of the GM SUV stable give it an automatic "guilt by association" or if you will a type of "Vehicle profiling" - Hence that is why Scott became so defensive even though the comments made by Butters were favorable. - Thanks Scott for proving my point! Cheers.:cool:

P.S. I am sure the 9-7x drives very well.

[Soli Europa]

Yes, I actually own one. And I am very happy. The 9-3 by the way is veeeery similar to the Cadillac BLS. That's how GM works.

The Caddilac BLS is built in Trollhattan right? A swedish Caddilac?? :roll: Are they selling any?? are they kidding??? I have seen the pictures of the BLS and it is essentially a rebaged 9-3 with a facelift - another GM "House of Wax" abomination -

SaabScott: I am sure it DRIVES nice though :nono;

[Butters]

The Caddilac BLS is built in Trollhattan right? A swedish Caddilac?? :roll: Are they selling any?? are they kidding??? I have seen the pictures of the BLS and it is essentially a rebaged 9-3 with a facelift - another GM "House of Wax" abomination -

SaabScott: I am sure it DRIVES nice though :nono;
Essentially yes, but it is apparently better than the 9-3. You get less road noise for example. But that should be fixed with the new version of the 9-3 I hear. (We used to own both a '04 9-3 SS and a '03 9-5 SC until we got rid of both to get the 9-7X. The 9-3 was really noisy and not very well built. Not to mention the 9-5 which made is debut in 97 and is still, ten years later, basically the same car with a slightly different front and back.).

They sold 8 of the Cadillac 9-3, sorry Saab BLS in Sweden last month. Making it a total of 108 in 2007. :o

The silly thing is off course that if the Saab 9-7X had been the first iteration of the 360 platform, the others would have been "rebadged" versions of the Saab. Not the other way around. (Like the BLS). It would have been better for the Saab brand. But neither is true. The Saab 9-7X is not a Trail Blazer with the ignition between the seats. Like the Trail Blazer is not a Isuzu Ascender with a Chevy front. They are all GM 360 SUVs, though.

[SaabScott]

SaabScott, maybe it's just me, but I think Butters posed the question as a doubting statement, hence the question mark. The internet is tough sometimes to interpret what people mean to infer or say.

But maybe he meant to say:

Just a trailblazer with the key in the center console? I don't think so.

And I guess that's why he posted the pictures.




Yes, I actually own one. And I am very happy. The 9-3 by the way is veeeery similar to the Cadillac BLS. That's how GM works.


I stand corrected ... ever since I was at the Saab test drive event 2 weekends ago, I have been hyper-sensitive to any negative remark against Saab! :confused:

I'm glad to hear that you like your 9-7X Butters!
Enjoy! :cool:

[Butters]

The Caddilac BLS is built in Trollhattan right? A swedish Caddilac?? :roll: Are they selling any?? are they kidding??? I have seen the pictures of the BLS and it is essentially a rebaged 9-3 with a facelift - another GM "House of Wax" abomination -

SaabScott: I am sure it DRIVES nice though :nono;
Well there are a lot of people in American BMWs and Benzes as well as Mexico-built Toyotas. They don't seem to care.

[Soli Europa]

Well there are a lot of people in American BMWs and Benzes as well as Mexico-built Toyotas. They don't seem to care.

Agreed - but they are buying the genuine article - BMW Z4 & CAMRY are not rebadged versions of some other car. The Mercedes Sprinter Van is a great idea - it's OK to sell a Mercedes as a Dodge but not the other way around. I'll use this analogy it's very desirable to have a "wolf in sheeps clothing" but not a "dog in wolf's clothing" As for Mexico, quality issues abound but could be corrected with process improvement - Facelift/design abominations plague the car's image for life.

Does SAAB sell alot of 9-7's in Sweden?

[Butters]

Agreed - but they are buying the genuine article - BMW Z4 & CAMRY are not rebadged versions of some other car. The Mercedes Sprinter Van is a great idea - it's OK to sell a Mercedes as a Dodge but not the other way around. I'll use this analogy it's very desirable to have a "wolf in sheeps clothing" but not a "dog in wolf's clothing" As for Mexico, quality issues abound but could be corrected with process improvement - Facelift/design abominations plague the car's image for life.

No, but the Lexus LX470 is more of a rebadge of the Toyota Landcruiser than the Saab is of any of it's GMT360 siblings.

And the same goes for Audi/VW/Skôda/Seat.


Does SAAB sell alot of 9-7's in Sweden?
They started to sell them in late March, I believe. That was when I saw the ad and went for a test drive, and decided to buy it. The pricing in Sweden is really attractive compared to what they sell the 9-3 and 9-5 for. I guess they are doing a test run to see if anyone will buy it. There are currently (as of mid June) 60 9-7Xs with Swedish plates. So I guess they sold about 20-30 a month which is quite good considering that the total market is less than 1/30 of the American (there are just 9 million of us Swedes, you know). With proper marketing they could probably sell about a hundred a month, adding about 20-25% to the current sales of about 500 a month in the US.

Edit: With a facelifted version with proper Saab seats, and a better safety rating, and an E85 engine, the Swedish would probably outsell the American market.

[Swade]

Does SAAB sell alot of 9-7's in Sweden?

I believe the Swedish sales are through an import company only, i.e they're not being sold officially by Saab Sweden. The presence there of the 9-7x has been notable enough, though, for one of the motoring mags to test it against a Volvo that was almost twice the price. I think there's a thread on that test elsewhere in this forum.

[Soli Europa]

Well it looks like the stopper is out of the bathtub for the 9-7x:

Saab will cease production of their short-lived 9-7X SUV next year because of lackluster sales. The 9-7X shares underpinnings with the Chevrolet TrailBlazer and both are built in GM's Moraine, Ohio plant. The TrailBlazer is also in death row as Chevrolet prepares to welcome its successor, which will share underpinnings with the Saturn Outlook. The 9-7X will be replaced by the 9-4X crossover, which will sit on GM's Theta architecure.


If SAAB does a proper job on the 9-4x it could be a real winner....

[Swade]

That article actually does a reasonable job of contradicting itself.

Is the 9-7x going because of lacklustre sales? Or is it because the entire GM900 (or is it GM360 - I'm having a brainfart) range is being replaced with new models as the article states? It's the latter, not the former.

Fact is, the 9-7x is going because the 9-4x is coming. Even if they continued producing Trailblazers etc it's reasonably likely that the 9-7x would stop next year because of the arrival of the 9-4x.

[Butters]

I believe the Swedish sales are through an import company only, i.e they're not being sold officially by Saab Sweden. The presence there of the 9-7x has been notable enough, though, for one of the motoring mags to test it against a Volvo that was almost twice the price. I think there's a thread on that test elsewhere in this forum.
It is sold through the world's largest Saab dealer (I guess by number of cars sold) - Svenska Bil AB. Yes, they import it from Saab USA, since that is where it is manufactured.

It used to be only through small import companies. At almost twice the price. No wonder it didn't sell well here...

[Soli Europa]

It is sold through the world's largest Saab dealer (I guess by number of cars sold) - Svenska Bil AB. Yes, they import it from Saab USA, since that is where it is manufactured.

It used to be only through small import companies. At almost twice the price. No wonder it didn't sell well here...

I'll bet the weak dollar vs. Euro is a big factor for why the price has come down. What is the price in Euros for a new 9-7?

[Butters]

Its about €40,000.

[AEROCOMBER]

Actually, you are mistaken. The 9-7 shares NO sheetmetal with the Chevy. It does share sheetmetal with the Buick Rainer, however, but there are distinct differences, obviously in the front, but also the rear. The interior is nowhere near the Chevy, or the Buick. Have you ever even seen it? Do a little homework. Have a nice day.

Chevy & Buick = GM!, the interior is shaped like a Chevy, I mean a GM interior, my homework is done, in fact, the first time I saw a 9-7, GM came to mind 100%. Even my wife, who's not car savy, asked my why it looked like a GM interior, and by that, we mean not EURO at all, EURO like maybe, but EURO!.

The 9-7 does a nice job of pretending to be a SAAB, but that's about it, its just pretend............however, with all things said and considered, it is a nice SUV.

[moose72]

Chevy & Buick = GM!, the interior is shaped like a Chevy, I mean a GM interior, my homework is done, in fact, the first time I saw a 9-7, GM came to mind 100%. Even my wife, who's not car savy, asked my why it looked like a GM interior, and by that, we mean not EURO at all, EURO like maybe, but EURO!.

The 9-7 does a nice job of pretending to be a SAAB, but that's about it, its just pretend............however, with all things said and considered, it is a nice SUV.

Perhaps more homework is necessary, this post you quoted was in response to a post stating that the sheetmetal was identical and shared part for part with a Chevy Trailblazer. As far as the interior being shaped like a Chevy? The steering whell is on the left, and it has two seats and a shifter, yep, just like a Chevy...

[The Alchemist]

Chevy & Buick = GM!, the interior is shaped like a Chevy, I mean a GM interior, my homework is done, in fact, the first time I saw a 9-7, GM came to mind 100%. Even my wife, who's not car savy, asked my why it looked like a GM interior, and by that, we mean not EURO at all, EURO like maybe, but EURO!.

The 9-7 does a nice job of pretending to be a SAAB, but that's about it, its just pretend............however, with all things said and considered, it is a nice SUV.

No offense, but I own both a 9-7 and 9-3 and they both feel like GM, guess why? Because they are GM. Fact is, Euro Saabs weren't selling in America and the company was near dead until GM helped design the new 9-3.

Get over it. If you want Euro, buy a Ferrari or BMW, even Benz is becoming Americanized, which isn't a bad thing to many people.


If you don't like the 9-7, come up with a better reason that the interior being 'too GM'.

[mikeucr]

To me the SUV is pretty nice. I wouldn't buy it if I were in the market for an SUV because there are better options for about the same price.

I have driven a TB for a year and it has been a good car.

I consider the 97x to be a trailblazer with a few tweaks, basically a nice trim package...it is what it is...

[Soli Europa]

I consider the 97x to be a trailblazer with a few tweaks, basically a nice trim package...it is what it is...

This is just says it all! For all of you 9-7x defenders who say it is more than this - you are engaging in sheer wish projection.

It's not a sin to enjoy a Trailblazer or a 9-7x for that matter.
Happy Motoring!

[The Alchemist]

To me the SUV is pretty nice. I wouldn't buy it if I were in the market for an SUV because there are better options for about the same price.

I have driven a TB for a year and it has been a good car.

I consider the 97x to be a trailblazer with a few tweaks, basically a nice trim package...it is what it is...

The few tweaks that you mention are no different than saying a 9-3 is just a chevy malibu with a few tweaks. If you're happy driving a chevy malibu than, good for you.

This is the funniest things I've seen in a while...

SAAB: "One of the Last Great European Cars"
STAND OUT - BE DIFFERENT - TAKE THE LEAD!

Saab is as American as Volvo, or Jaguar or any other European brand that was in financial ruins and had to be bought to be saved from collapse. The 9-3 has some European features, but definitely isn't "One of the Last Great European Cars" unless you are dating back to pre-1990.

[mikeucr]

I disagree, and while this exact debate has gone on and on, the 9-3 and malibu share very little, whereas the TB/97X reminds me of the brand engineering that GM did in the early to mid 80s where the only real difference between a Chevy Cavalier and a Cadillac Cimmaron was a different grill, taillights, and a few more things and they charged a huge premium for it, but the public so it for what it was.

I give Ford credit for not taking an explorer and putting a volvo grill on the front, which they easily could have done. The Xc90 feels like a Volvo, albeit a big and overweight one.

The 97x is nice, but I am not sure it is any better than the Trailblazer I have driven for over 30,000 miles. In addition, is it worth the roughly 10-20 percent premium? For me, it isn't, but hey different strokes for different folks.

The few tweaks that you mention are no different than saying a 9-3 is just a chevy malibu with a few tweaks. If you're happy driving a chevy malibu than, good for you.

This is the funniest things I've seen in a while...

SAAB: "One of the Last Great European Cars"
STAND OUT - BE DIFFERENT - TAKE THE LEAD!

Saab is as American as Volvo, or Jaguar or any other European brand that was in financial ruins and had to be bought to be saved from collapse. The 9-3 has some European features, but definitely isn't "One of the Last Great European Cars" unless you are dating back to pre-1990.

[The Alchemist]

So is an Escalade just a Tahoe with a chrome grill???

Plus, the drivetrain in the 9-3 is a GM engineered drivetrain. The direct injected, 2.0T is found in the Saturn ION and Pontiac Solstice.

I don't understand why so many people are hating on the 9-7, and have this snobbish attitude about their 9-3s. I like my 9-3, but my T/A makes me smile so much more. But it's only got two doors and I need four doors with an 8-month old.

[mikeucr]

No hating on the 9-7

And yeah the Escalade is more or less a tahoo with a different grille...look at the interiors, the side profile..etc

I just think they could have tried a bit harder thats all

[dawgpound55]

Just thought that I would throw in my two cents on the 9-7x... I have had a 900, 9000, and 9-5 Aero, and I debated about the SAABness of the 9-7x for a year before I bought one. I wanted to be loyal to the brand but it didn't hit all of the queues... Well, after putting about 15K on my 2006 5.3i, I have grown to appreciate and like it. True, I wish it were turbo-charged with a 6 speed... but it really is a nice vehicle. The handling is better than expected, the power is decent, and I think that it looks good... I have a black car with the tan interior, which I believe looks best on this car of all of the choices. Though it has a similar silhouette as the other GMT360 platforms... I believe that their are enough changes to differentiate it. I do NOT feel like I am driving a Trail Blazer (which certainly is a decent car as evidenced by how many Chevy has sold...).

One added benefit is that it can tow my 6000 lb. boat... although that wasn't it's primary mission.

I look forward to future SAAB products and I hope that the brand will contnue to carve it's own unique niche in the market... The 9-7x may be a stop-gap vehicle... but it is alot better than people give it credit for. It's unique in that like all SAABs, you don't see a lot of them on the road... and I kinda like that.

Cheers!

[The Alchemist]

To add to the Saab'ness of the 9-7x, it's getting the 6.0L LS3 later this year (08 model year) and will have a solid 400hp to go along with the handling and breaking upgrades. It will be very similar to the trailblazer SS. That will be one hot ride, and they already have a turbo and supercharger for either the 5.3L or 6.0L.

Unfortunately, when we bought our 9-7x, we couldn't find a black with the 5.3 and my wife was set on getting the black with the tan interior. If we had gotten the 5.3, it would probably have headers, different intake manifold, and a bigger cam.

[Abarth]

You know I have tried to keep out of this thread, but last week my 97X was in the dealer for some work and they gave me a 93 Turbo as a loaner. This is the first time I have had a extended drive in the car other than a test drive my wife took a few months ago when she was looking for a new car. I have to wonder where all this loyality and snober is base on. For a 'lux' car, there was not much to write home about, my wife' s Madzaspeed 6 (Grand Touring Package) is better is every respect than the 93 IMHO. I opened the glove box and saw the window sticker which was $30K+ and was dumb founded. The engine was happy to rev but only delivered 22.3 mpg for the 876 miles I drove it, and I do love the seats, but the rest of the interior is not well layed out or of the quality of material I have in the 97X. The only positive I can draw from this experience is that I do like driving the smaller car, and look foward to the AR Brera's launch in two years. I do want to drive the 08 93 though to see if they have improved any...

Tim

[mike saunders]

You know I have tried to keep out of this thread, but last week my 97X was in the dealer for some work and they gave me a 93 Turbo as a loaner. This is the first time I have had a extended drive in the car other than a test drive my wife took a few months ago when she was looking for a new car. I have to wonder where all this loyality and snober is base on. For a 'lux' car, there was not much to write home about, my wife' s Madzaspeed 6 (Grand Touring Package) is better is every respect than the 93 IMHO. I opened the glove box and saw the window sticker which was $30K+ and was dumb founded. The engine was happy to rev but only delivered 22.3 mpg for the 876 miles I drove it, and I do love the seats, but the rest of the interior is not well layed out or of the quality of material I have in the 97X. The only positive I can draw from this experience is that I do like driving the smaller car, and look foward to the AR Brera's launch in two years. I do want to drive the 08 93 though to see if they have improved any...

Tim

You got a base model 9-3 with cloth and you're comparing it to a fully appointed car?




Fail.

[Abarth]

You got a base model 9-3 with cloth and you're comparing it to a fully appointed car?




Fail.

No quite to the contrary, the car had leather, XM Radio + CD, Manumatic transmission and a $1000.00 extra metalic paint job. What I could not believe was the simple things like no memory on the seats or mirrors, passenger mirror that does not 'dip' in reverse, heated mirrors, power passenger seat, the inability to open the trunk from the exterior without the 'fob'. Simple things that are on the Mazda at $K's less. And on a personnel note the size of this car is closer to the Madza 3 than the 6. And if you compare the Madzaspeed 3 to the 93 Turbo, who in their right mind would buy one? Just MHO....

Tim

PS: This 93 Turbo had a sticker of $30K+, and if that is a base car no wonder they are not selling when compared to Lexus IS250 or Infiniti G35 / G37, or M-B C class, or BMW 3 series, or Volvo 40's here in the USA. The Cadillac CTS is bigger, more to the size of a 9-5, but is selling very well and the 08 version will be selling even better, have you seen the quality of the leather interior that is standard on this car at $34K?

[Butters]

To me the SUV is pretty nice. I wouldn't buy it if I were in the market for an SUV because there are better options for about the same price.

I have driven a TB for a year and it has been a good car.

I consider the 97x to be a trailblazer with a few tweaks, basically a nice trim package...it is what it is...
Yes. It is a Trailblazer with different interior, exterior, suspension etcetera. It doesn't feel like a Trailblazer. It doesn't drive like a Trailblazer. It doesn't look like a Trailblazer. I've parked next to Trailblazers att the mall many times and no, an untrained eye would not spot the similarities.

If people would stop attacking it without having even driven it, there would be no need for us who actually own it and drive it every day to stand up and say. "Hey, it is a pretty nice SUV."

It may not be the ultimate SUV. I don't know which one would be. But it was perfect for me and my family's needs. And with every other car being a Q7,X5,RR or XC90 in my neighbourhood, being a bit different appealed to me.

[Saab D aka Volvo D]

If people would stop attacking it without having even driven it, there would be no need for us who actually own it and drive it every day to stand up and say. "Hey, it is a pretty nice SUV."

It may not be the ultimate SUV. I don't know which one would be. But it was perfect for me and my family's needs. And with every other car being a Q7,X5,RR or XC90 in my neighbourhood, being a bit different appealed to me.

Spot on. And everyone is missing the big picture...an SUV will never save the earth, so why attack this one? show me a proper sized SUV that will get 30 miles per gallon? Even the Hybrid-Tahoe can't muster those kinds of numbers.
This is a vehicle that has helped Saab bring in much needed profits, and also brought new customers into the fold. It was a great stop-gap solution. The 9-4x will be more in line with Saab's character, and the 9-7x will become history, although it wasn't a bad chapter.

[mike saunders]

No quite to the contrary, the car had leather, XM Radio + CD, Manumatic transmission and a $1000.00 extra metalic paint job. What I could not believe was the simple things like no memory on the seats or mirrors, passenger mirror that does not 'dip' in reverse, heated mirrors, power passenger seat, the inability to open the trunk from the exterior without the 'fob'. Simple things that are on the Mazda at $K's less. And on a personnel note the size of this car is closer to the Madza 3 than the 6. And if you compare the Madzaspeed 3 to the 93 Turbo, who in their right mind would buy one? Just MHO....


You definitely have a base model.

Saabs have had nearly all those simple things for a decade or more, but on the SE, ARC, "T" or Aero models. You probably drove a base model "t"


My 97 SE has memory seats, power passenger, heated mirrors...My 99 9-5 SE has all those plus the memory mirrors...

[mikeucr]

Sorry but I have parked my Trailblazer right next to a 97x of the same color and they look so damn similiar...

Did they do any changing of gear ratios, engine mods to make the engine any more refined?

The 4.2 litre GM engine with that 4 speed Automatic is so damn sluggish on the TB....In my opinion the gear changes are less that precise, many times my TB gets confused on what gear to go into, and the 4.2 sounds pretty wheezy. Did they do ANYTHING to change the engine/tranny or is it the same? I am willing to bet it is the same due to cost.

Also, if you have to accelerate to quickly merge on an ending onramp, my trailblazer will hit like 6100 rpm then slam back down all of a sudden into a different gear...sort of odd. NEEDS A 5 SPEED!

[jgmiller]

Sorry but I have parked my Trailblazer right next to a 97x of the same color and they look so damn similiar...

Did they do any changing of gear ratios, engine mods to make the engine any more refined?

The 4.2 litre GM engine with that 4 speed Automatic is so damn sluggish on the TB....In my opinion the gear changes are less that precise, many times my TB gets confused on what gear to go into, and the 4.2 sounds pretty wheezy. Did they do ANYTHING to change the engine/tranny or is it the same? I am willing to bet it is the same due to cost.

Also, if you have to accelerate to quickly merge on an ending onramp, my trailblazer will hit like 6100 rpm then slam back down all of a sudden into a different gear...sort of odd. NEEDS A 5 SPEED!

Actually I've had a few people mistake it for a Saturn SUV but never a TB. As for the engine/tranny combo I don't think they changed much on that but I've driven a few 9-7X's and I've never had one do what you describe. It accelerates quickly for a heavy car and while I agree it needs a 5 or 6 speed to smooth out the shifts a bit it certainly doesn't exhibit the kind of gear hunting you describe.

[Abarth]

You definitely have a base model.

Saabs have had nearly all those simple things for a decade or more, but on the SE, ARC, "T" or Aero models. You probably drove a base model "t"


My 97 SE has memory seats, power passenger, heated mirrors...My 99 9-5 SE has all those plus the memory mirrors...

Mike,

What is the price people are paying, gulp, for a 'top' of the line model?

Tim

[The Alchemist]

Sorry but I have parked my Trailblazer right next to a 97x of the same color and they look so damn similiar...

Did they do any changing of gear ratios, engine mods to make the engine any more refined?

The 4.2 litre GM engine with that 4 speed Automatic is so damn sluggish on the TB....In my opinion the gear changes are less that precise, many times my TB gets confused on what gear to go into, and the 4.2 sounds pretty wheezy. Did they do ANYTHING to change the engine/tranny or is it the same? I am willing to bet it is the same due to cost.

Also, if you have to accelerate to quickly merge on an ending onramp, my trailblazer will hit like 6100 rpm then slam back down all of a sudden into a different gear...sort of odd. NEEDS A 5 SPEED!

A quick tune with HPtuners and I got rid of the sluggish'ness you are describing. The shifts are quick and crisp with anything over half throttle. I highly recomend tuning software for anyone with a 9-7x, but don't take that as a knock against the 9-7, look at how many people buy the chips for the 9-3, and you can't even change any settings. Part of the issue you are describing is torque management, in combination with the electric throttle body.

I partially regret getting the 4.2 over the 5.3, but at the time in 2005, we couldn't find any black 5.3s.

[Soli Europa]

I saw this link today and i just couldn't stop thinking about thaose 9-7x defenders who who are in denial about the strong resemblance of the 9-7x to the Trailblazer - well this a the 9-4x spy photo and wouldn't you know it actually says "TrailBlazer" on the back.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-saab-9-4x.html

[The Alchemist]

Nobody is denying the resemblence or ignoring the fact that the 9-7x was/is a derivative of the trailblazer/envoy. My point was that it stands on it's own as a unique vehicle since it has enough differences from the trail/voy.

Geeze, noone is forcing anyone to buy one. If you don't like it, don't buy it, drive it or look at it. I'm sorry it sours your milk that it's called a saab, but it's as much as saab as the 9-3/9-5 are.

[moose72]

I saw this link today and i just couldn't stop thinking about thaose 9-7x defenders who who are in denial about the strong resemblance of the 9-7x to the Trailblazer - well this a the 9-4x spy photo and wouldn't you know it actually says "TrailBlazer" on the back.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-saab-9-4x.html

That's because it is Trailblazer sheetmetal except for the front fenders, unlike the production 9-7. This is obviously a test mule that has a body thrown together, what this proves, I have no idea.

[Abarth]

That's because it is Trailblazer sheetmetal except for the front fenders, unlike the production 9-7. This is obviously a test mule that has a body thrown together, what this proves, I have no idea.

It shows how simple minded people get when they can not think outside the box....

Tim

[Soli Europa]

Nobody is denying the resemblence or ignoring the fact that the 9-7x was/is a derivative of the trailblazer/envoy. My point was that it stands on it's own as a unique vehicle since it has enough differences from the trail/voy.
/////
In no way do I think a 9-3 is comparable to a malibu and in the same manor don't think a 9-7 is in the same league as the trail/voy's..

Not in the same league? Show me a 9-3 with a Malibu rear end on the back (or on the front for that matter) Your earlier comment (in BOLD) sure sounds like you are dening the strong resemblence to the Trailblazer to me. But yeah I know it drives better....
Cheers.

[Butters]

I don't think that would be too difficult. The only big exterior difference is the slightly different c-pillar. The rest is actually more similar than the 9-7x and the TB.


http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc865/th_85936_chevy_9-3_122_865lo.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85936_chevy_9-3_122_865lo.jpg)

[Soli Europa]

I don't think that would be too difficult. The only big exterior difference is the slightly different c-pillar. The rest is actually more similar than the 9-7x and the TB.


http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc865/th_85936_chevy_9-3_122_865lo.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85936_chevy_9-3_122_865lo.jpg)

I don't see anything interchangeable here - The rear is much longer and rises up to the rear glass -The fuel door is square - the glass is different all around and the doors are cut differently - wait a minute - maybe the ski racks will interchange!

[Butters]

I don't see anything interchangeable here - The rear is much longer and rises up to the rear glass -The fuel door is square - the glass is different all around and the doors are cut differently - wait a minute - maybe the ski racks will interchange!
Maybe they will, as the 9-7x does with the 9-5.

The two pictures are not from the same angle.

[Butters]

Mitsubishi/Citroen have taken the sharing thing a bit further for their Outlander/C-crosser. Can you tell which one is which?

http://img191.imagevenue.com/loc144/th_28055_mitsubishi_c-crosser_122_144lo.jpg (http://img191.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=28055_mitsubishi_c-crosser_122_144lo.jpg)