Raulís ultimate SPG project. enough said!!! [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Raulís ultimate SPG project. enough said!!!


El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:07 AM
Its time for me to post my 1989 Saab 900 SPG project. Iíve been reading these project pages for while, some of them I like and some of them are just plain stock rebuilding jobs, has no place being posted here in the performance project section. Am Raul and am serious Saab fanatic, Iíve spend some serious money on my project. I think my project deserves to be posted here so that others can use my information for their need.

I bought the car in great shape no rust sense I live in AZ I donít have to worry about rust eating my project car at all. Whole car in running condition cost me $400, it has a lots of miles 270k, am amazed that engine block did not show that much ware. I also bought another Saab 1992 900s with bad transmission for $200. I took all the parts of the that car and junked the rust free body. Thatís the best way to buy used parts for saab, it is cheaper in long run plus I get to use all the great stuff from 2.1L engine.

My project includes rebuilding everything. Eliminating heater and all the stupid extra stuff they put in these cars. I stripped the whole interior and will clean it all. I replaced the stupid leather seats with cloth ones. Replaced the automatic seat belts with manual ones. Engine management will be junked because am using Megasquirt V3. Took the whole dash off to eliminate crap that I donít need.



The list of upgrades for the engine, transmission:



Block 202

Pistons stock turbo 90+

2.1L head with cams, mild port job

tranny 91+

Turbo GT2860RS

3Ē V band downpipe

Megasquirt V3

Front mount IC

3Ē exhaust with magnaflow muffler

and much moreÖ



Here is the photo of my 89 saab SPG project car:

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulprojectcar.jpg
Project is going very slow do to very hot temperatures here in AZ, am putting 2 hours a day into whole project. So far I have stripped the interior and engine bay, interior is ready for assembly.



Here you can see my Aero wheels from 1996 9000 turbo, and a 3Ē exhaust from my BMW that I will use including magnaflow muffler.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/aerowheelsmagnaflow.JPG

here is interior after I stripped it

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/interiorinterior.JPG

here is interior after I put in washed carped and rest of the parts, I had to use tan carped sense the gray one that I had was torn.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/interiordva.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:13 AM
Here is the Saab 900s year 1992 is beautiful shape that I bought for $200 for parts, it only needed transmission fixed and it could be very nice saab but I needed parts for my project so It had to go to junk jard. Rust free beautiful body, no dents at all, perfect paint, but it had to go. It is cheaper to buy a junk car for parts than go to junkyards always.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/91donor.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/redyforjunk.jpg

Donor 92 car gave me lots of great parts like this 2.1L exellent shape head with intake manifold and fuel rail
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/2.1Lhead.jpg

I decided to lap the valves and replace the stem seals, and also do mild port job, I did not want to do major port job because I donít thing that it will make much difference, ports are smooth and pretty big.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/21head.JPG

Here is the engine block stripped from my 89 spg, bore is just too good to believe, 270k miles with just minor wear, it is Swedish quality baby.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rauls270kblock.JPG

These are 90+ Saab pistons, they have improved skirt designed also oil ring relief design, while old pistons look like diesel pistons with longer skirt and very poor oil ring design where the only way the oil gets drained back is holes inside the piston. 90+ pistons donít have holes in them that improved the strength. These piston look more like viggen pistons and that is new technology. I am using these.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/90pis.jpg

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:22 AM
I am using the best parts to build a very good transmission, it is simple, just use the transmission from 91 to 93 saab spg, it has all the improvements and thatís what I will use. I had a transmission go bad on me, these transmissions are not that strong we all know that but with extra care, good fluid and best parts we can make it to be just good for the job.



Here you can see the 91 gear vs 90 gear. Pitch of the gear teeth has changed, probably for strength, the syncro is bigger

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/gearcomparison.jpg

here are all the differences, forks are thinner and syncro collars are bigger and thinner, diff pan has a filter built in it with magnet, countershaft has a bigger bearing with sleeve, front cover has an bering to support the bigger loads.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/gears.jpg

The forks, 91 vs 90
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/91vs90forks.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:26 AM
you can see the bigger pinion is outside the tranny. I never had pinion go bad on me and I had som serious upgraded saabs. It is that people run out of oil and this bearing has to give.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/pinions.JPG

most of the parts are not interchangeable, so you must pay attention. Transmission is very easy to get rebuilt with proper manual and if you got all the parts. I had all new syncros for newer tranny, this tranny will be nice.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rebuildingtranny.JPG

all done, using MTL red line viscosity is similar to what factory recommends, Never use thick oil on these ger boxex, syncros donít like anything over 10w40. Use what factory recommends viscosity 10w30 and that is same as MTL.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/trannys.jpg

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/readdytogo.JPG

(http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rebuildingtranny.JPG)

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:30 AM
This manifold is from 90+ spg, it does not have that annoying bump, it seems much more efficient free flowing, am using this


http://www.photodump.org/stored14/90mani.jpg
Transmission is done, engine block is done
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/enginepriject1.JPG

Engine is put on transmission, all the seals are replaced, new chain, new guidesÖblabla bla
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/engineproject2.JPG

Raul is no joke, I am serious Saab performance enthusiast and I have spent the money on best stuff. Innovative motorsports wideband 02 sensor, Megasquirt newest version and the best version V3, with stimulator. I had to buy an older laptop to use it exlusivly with megasquirt. IBM 390 is perfect, only $100 and it does the job. It has a nice serial port. Windows XP without any updates, only going to use it for my Saab. $900 spent on these 3 items, Raul is serious.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/msandinnovative.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:33 AM
I assembled the megasquirt by my self with the setup for hall effect ignition, bosch idle valve and much more.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/msboardv3.JPG

Am planning on fitting this in my glove box, it is all ready and tested with the laptop and stimulator, Raul is no joke guys, I know my stuff.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/msboardv32.JPG

Raul is no joke, a $1300 turbo kit is going on a $400 saab, GT2860RS with .64 ar turbine housing. Enough for 350 hp. A very efficient new design ball bearing turbo. It is already proven to be grat on a saab, Luke at saabrally.com had made 280hp with an RS but he has ford .63 turbine housing, it is a bit bigger but less efficient sense it is old school and GT is new school.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/turbokitrauls.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:37 AM
I already installed this very popular turbo on a B202 engine, I used two flanges and welded them together from inside and outside to make an adapter, oil feed line using AN4 and AN6 adaptors. Oil drain I used stock pipe, cut it weld a 16mm hose flange to it from my Nissan scrap parts, and then weld the other side of th eflango to a T3 oil feed flange, drilled the hole bigger. Water cooling is no problem, I already have banjo fittings for it. I will be the first person on the net that had installed this kind of turbo on a B202 SPG saab. There is another person but he has gt28r, a bit smaller.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulsturbo1.jpg

Garrett GT line has revolutionized turbocharger performance and reduced turbo lag to virtually undetectable levels.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulsturbo2.JPG

3Ē V band GT turbo adapter, very high flow, this will work nice. I will have nice 3Ē mandrel downpipe attached here
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulsturbo3.JPG

spacing is perfect, it almost sits in the same location that stock T3 sits.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulsturbo4.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
21st May 2007, 04:40 AM
here is the adapter T3 to T2, look at the oil drain pipe, I secured it to turbo support with a bolt, nice

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/T2flange.JPG

wastegate is no problem, I will have to use the T3 flange and the wastegate that came with GT.
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/wastegate1.JPG

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/wastegate2.JPG

More photos and info to come...

philb
21st May 2007, 06:56 AM
Looks like you are doing some great work Raul. The pictures of the gearbox and turbo are really interesting. Its a pity you sent that perfect shell to the junkyard, I'm sure someone from the rust states would be really happy with it. Lets hope you get this car on the road soon. About the gearbox, you've gone for the best internals, but have you given any thought to strengthening the transmission casing?

TheRedBaron
21st May 2007, 11:03 AM
Looks like a very solid start Raul - is that a standard clutch assembly? I wouldn't think that would hold all the power that engine will be pumping. That turbo is gorgeous.

I like what you're doing with the interior - taking out all of the center console and whatnot, but still carpeting around it so that it looks like a "normal car." You might want to remove the carpeting, take out the sound deadening, and then put the carpeting back for a few extra pounds of lightness. Are you going to use the stock dash, or just put a plate in its place?

Palmer1980
21st May 2007, 12:16 PM
Raul is no joke.



Nice project.


Keep taking those pictures!

SteveMcqueen
21st May 2007, 12:54 PM
Raul talks in 3rd person.

Raul is rather ****y.

Steve likes Raul.

Looks like a good build you have going on.

sonett1
21st May 2007, 01:03 PM
Lot's of 'bolt on power' products you have there.

If you are really serious about this engine upgrade you would have started with a well worked cylinderhead, big inlet valves and cams to match, to quote

''I decided to lap the valves and replace the stem seals, and also do mild port job, I did not want to do major port job because I donít thing that it will make much difference, ports are smooth and pretty big.''

To say it will not make much power is a bold statement and not true.

Marrk
21st May 2007, 01:36 PM
http://www.photodump.org/stored14/raulsturbo3.JPG

Get the welder to let his guide dog do the work in future...:o :cheesy:

xassh
22nd May 2007, 03:14 AM
Lot's of 'bolt on power' products you have there.

If you are really serious about this engine upgrade you would have started with a well worked cylinderhead, big inlet valves and cams to match, to quote

''I decided to lap the valves and replace the stem seals, and also do mild port job, I did not want to do major port job because I donít thing that it will make much difference, ports are smooth and pretty big.''

To say it will not make much power is a bold statement and not true.



porting is only half of the work to be done, the other half comes from the polishing. porting will increase the amount of air that can be moved through an engine, polishing will increase how fast that air can be moved.

my girlfriend just read that and had to comment on the hours i have spent with a latex glove on my hand and a square of sandpaper

sonett1
22nd May 2007, 04:11 AM
porting is only half of the work to be done, the other half comes from the polishing. porting will increase the amount of air that can be moved through an engine, polishing will increase how fast that air can be moved.

my girlfriend just read that and had to comment on the hours i have spent with a latex glove on my hand and a square of sandpaper

Interesting, could you tell me more about the polishing, what sort of finish ?

Marrk
22nd May 2007, 05:04 AM
porting is only half of the work to be done, the other half comes from the polishing. porting will increase the amount of air that can be moved through an engine, polishing will increase how fast that air can be moved.

my girlfriend just read that and had to comment on the hours i have spent with a latex glove on my hand and a square of sandpaper

Its been shown that polishing ports is not necessary.

The "Porting and Polishing" Myth
It is popularly held that enlarging the ports to the maximum possible size and applying a mirror finish is what porting is. However that is not so. Some ports may be enlarged to their maximum possible size (in keeping with the highest level of aerodynamic efficiency) but those engines are highly developed very high speed units where the actual size of the ports has become a restriction. Often the size of the port is reduced to increase power. A mirror finish of the port does not provide the increase that intuition would suggest. In fact, within intake systems, the surface is usually deliberately textured to a degree of uniform roughness to encourage fuel deposited on the port walls to evaporate quickly. A rough surface on selected areas of the port may also alter flow by energizing the boundary layer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_layer), which can alter the flow path noticeably, possibly increasing flow. This is similar to what the dimples on a golf ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_ball) do. Flow bench (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_flow_bench) testing shows that the difference between a mirror finished port and a rough textured port is typically less than 1%. The difference between a smooth to the touch port and an optically mirrored surface is not measurable by ordinary means. Exhaust ports may be smooth finished because of the dry gas flow but an optical finish is wasted effort and money.

The reason that polished ports are not advantageous from a flow standpoint is that at the interface between the metal wall and the air, the air speed is ZERO (see boundary layer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_layer) and laminar flow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow)). This is due to the wetting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting) action of the air and indeed all fluids. The first layer of molecules adheres to the wall and does not move significantly. The rest of the flow field must shear past which develops a velocity profile (or gradient) across the duct. In order for surface roughness to impact flow appreciably, the high spots must be high enough to protrude into the faster moving air toward the center. Only a very rough surface does this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Velocity_profile.GIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Velocity_profile.GIF) A developed velocity profile in a duct that shows why polished surfaces have little effect on flow. The air speed at the wall interface is zero regardless of how smooth it is.

sonett1
22nd May 2007, 11:21 AM
In head tuning terms i think the word polishing maybe mis-understood as to the type of finish, the bulk of the work is done using burrs, then the surface is 'polished' using a course sandpaper as in the pic below, this is a Puma Racing head for my Pug.....http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/sonett_01/pumainlet2.jpg

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
22nd May 2007, 02:37 PM
I've done so many upgrades to my Nissan 300zx twin turbo, one of the things that does not make a difference is the port polishing the heads, the ports are about the same as 2.1L Saab head, performance shops for nissan dyno tested the ported and polished car vs stock and the difference was insignificant. Like I said Saab 2.1L head and intake manifold is pritty big and smooth so I just gave it a light pass with dremel tool and thats it. Plus am only shooting for 250hp, smooth and reliable baby.

sonett1
22nd May 2007, 03:25 PM
I've done so many upgrades to my Nissan 300zx twin turbo, one of the things that does not make a difference is the port polishing the heads, the ports are about the same as 2.1L Saab head, performance shops for nissan dyno tested the ported and polished car vs stock and the difference was insignificant.

Sorry i do not agree, there are not many 'standard' heads that flow so good that they do not need any extra work, Porsche heads and some of the Peogeot heads are good examples, Saab heads are not that good. It all depends on who is doing the head work, opening up the ports is only part of the equation, the valve seat angles, combustion area and the valve itself play significant parts in high flow gains.
My initial comment is based on the what you said..............you are serious about this!

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
22nd May 2007, 04:45 PM
Sorry i do not agree, there are not many 'standard' heads that flow so good that they do not need any extra work, Porsche heads and some of the Peogeot heads are good examples, Saab heads are not that good. It all depends on who is doing the head work, opening up the ports is only part of the equation, the valve seat angles, combustion area and the valve itself play significant parts in high flow gains.
My initial comment is based on the what you said..............you are serious about this!

You don't have to agree, we are talking about 2.1L Saab head here, which is built well. There is no dyno proof over 2.1L stock VS ported 2.1L so you are just guessing. The gain is small and am not wasting so much of my time for 2hp.

sonett1
22nd May 2007, 04:51 PM
You don't have to agree, we are talking about 2.1L Saab head here, which is built well. There is no dyno proof over 2.1L stock VS ported 2.1L so you are just guessing. The gain is small and am not wasting so much of my time for 2hp.

OK, i am just guessing :roll:, good luck with your engine.

amish_geek
22nd May 2007, 05:04 PM
You don't have to agree, we are talking about 2.1L Saab head here, which is built well. There is no dyno proof over 2.1L stock VS ported 2.1L so you are just guessing. The gain is small and am not wasting so much of my time for 2hp.

You may be correct on "porting". But what about the effects of a 3-angle valve grind? And other things done to the head besides "port & polish".

There are still other things that have dyno proven results to improve head performance.

sonett1
22nd May 2007, 05:15 PM
You may be correct on "porting". But what about the effects of a 3-angle valve grind? And other things done to the head besides "port & polish".

There are still other things that have dyno proven results to improve head performance.

I have mentioned valve angle seats in my post, or are you asking about what effects they have?

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
23rd May 2007, 12:33 AM
You may be correct on "porting". But what about the effects of a 3-angle valve grind? And other things done to the head besides "port & polish".

There are still other things that have dyno proven results to improve head performance.

3 angle valve job on a Saab head is a mistake, that reduces surface area that valve seals, it could have problems later. I want it reliable, I want the valve to seal well. Besides the gain is minimal if any. Valve angle jobs and port and polishing does well on american V8s naturally aspirated. You guys are reading magazines and think you know everything, have you ever done this on a saab? 3 angle valve job on a 2.1L head is a joke, port and polish would not hurt but the time you have to put in it is not worth the gain. Just put the good working 2.1L head on there, and thats it, it is that easy. The only other option that is worth doing when it comes to the head is to use T5 or T7 head, it has a bigger intake valves and that does make big difference.

ShadowWorks
23rd May 2007, 01:43 AM
I understand what your saying Raul but I have worked on the B202 head and got the turbo to spool faster by 800ms, I shaped the exhaust port side into a velocity stack shape which narrowed the expanding exhaust gas into sharp diamond shape jets, I don't think I increased its flow capacity by much if at all but thats not whats I was trying to do, I just wanted to focus the gas into a longer jet to get more velocity.

sonett1
23rd May 2007, 04:22 AM
3 angle valve job on a Saab head is a mistake, that reduces surface area that valve seals, it could have problems later. I want it reliable, I want the valve to seal well. Besides the gain is minimal if any. Valve angle jobs and port and polishing does well on american V8s naturally aspirated. You guys are reading magazines and think you know everything, have you ever done this on a saab? 3 angle valve job on a 2.1L head is a joke, port and polish would not hurt but the time you have to put in it is not worth the gain. Just put the good working 2.1L head on there, and thats it, it is that easy. The only other option that is worth doing when it comes to the head is to use T5 or T7 head, it has a bigger intake valves and that does make big difference.

Could you tell me why Saab valve seats are different to all other engines?
Why should you port a turbo head different to a non-turbo head?
Why is the valve surface area reduced with 3 angle seat cutting?

amish_geek
23rd May 2007, 12:30 PM
3 angle valve job on a Saab head is a mistake, that reduces surface area that valve seals, it could have problems later. I want it reliable, I want the valve to seal well. Besides the gain is minimal if any. Valve angle jobs and port and polishing does well on american V8s naturally aspirated. You guys are reading magazines and think you know everything, have you ever done this on a saab? 3 angle valve job on a 2.1L head is a joke, port and polish would not hurt but the time you have to put in it is not worth the gain. Just put the good working 2.1L head on there, and thats it, it is that easy. The only other option that is worth doing when it comes to the head is to use T5 or T7 head, it has a bigger intake valves and that does make big difference.

Out of the hundreds of Saab tuners and tweakers and performance people, you are the first I've seen that says that head work is of no value.

Please tell me what experience you have with Saab engines that the hundreds of other with YEARS of experience don't have. I guess everyone I've met that rebuilds Saab engines (even the people with funny hats in the UK, and the people breathing Swedens NO2 filled air) all read too much about American V8 engines in magazines.

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
23rd May 2007, 03:05 PM
Why is the valve surface area reduced with 3 angle seat cutting?
Sonnet1 that question tells me that you don't know anything about 3 angle valve cuts and that you are not familiar with procedure not how it looks. How can you claim something is better when you don't even know what it is?


Out of the hundreds of Saab tuners and tweakers and performance people, you are the first I've seen that says that head work is of no value.

amish_geek thats your problem you talked to too many "tuners" and "tweakers" but you never talked to serious engine building folks. Besides I did not say that head work is of no value, I said that head work on 2.1L will bring minimal results. Pay attention.

sonett1
23rd May 2007, 03:13 PM
Sonnet1 that question tells me that you don't know anything about 3 angle valve cuts and that you are not familiar with procedure not how it looks. How can you claim something is better when you don't even know what it is?

I'm willing to learn, please tell me about 3 angle valve seats, you didn't answer my other questions either.

TheRedBaron
23rd May 2007, 03:19 PM
Sonnet1 that question tells me that you don't know anything about 3 angle valve cuts and that you are not familiar with procedure not how it looks. How can you claim something is better when you don't even know what it is?


amish_geek thats your problem you talked to too many "tuners" and "tweakers" but you never talked to serious engine building folks. Besides I did not say that head work is of no value, I said that head work on 2.1L will bring minimal results. Pay attention.But, can you answer their questions? I for one would like to know what "serious engine building folk" say.

Enough sophistry, I want answers!

sonett1
24th May 2007, 03:53 AM
Raul, are you going to answer my questions ? You have had more than enough time to research your answers or maybe you consider me not worthy of your time and your obvious superior knowledge, after all we have never met and you even know i read magazines or maybe i am just guessing.
I think i would be right in saying that other people reading this thread are eager to learn about the questions i have asked you.................

Could you tell me why Saab valve seats are different to all other engines?
Why should you port a turbo head different to a non-turbo head?
Why is the valve surface area reduced with 3 angle seat cutting?

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
24th May 2007, 04:31 AM
I decided to rebuild my old rack and pinion, I know it is a challange but am willing to risk it. Gates rebuilt kit 350810 costs only $25 so why not. It is not that hard, there is one seal that is hard to install and that is easy to damage, because it has to go over gear teeth and gets scratched, I hope I did not damage mine. Well see, am willing to gamble on it.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG (http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG)

took me 4 hours

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rackfinito.JPG

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
24th May 2007, 04:57 AM
Raul, are you going to answer my questions ?
Could you tell me why Saab valve seats are different to all other engines?




They are similar to all 4 cylinder engines with 4 valves per cylinder engines. I didn't say they are different than ALL other so I don't know where you got that out of.

Why should you port a turbo head different to a non-turbo head?

you port them the same way

Why is the valve surface area reduced with 3 angle seat cutting?

Because you got to cut a stock one angle two times to get 3 angles out of it. It reduces the stock sealing surface, Go use google.com and learn more.

sonett1
24th May 2007, 08:29 AM
They are similar to all 4 cylinder engines with 4 valves per cylinder engines. I didn't say they are different than ALL other so I don't know where you got that out of.

You implied that the Saab 16v head should be treated differently to other 16v heads and is in an ultimate state of flow as it left the factory. Intake valve seat angles are critical when modifying heads, you need to know what angles work best with other modifications carried out with the head. A properly 3 angled seat or 4 or 5 angled seat will seal the same as a properly machined single angle seat- the advantage of the multi angle seat is the control of flow over this area. I can maybe understand your concerns over poor sealing etc, but this will only come about if the machining is of poor quality, which is ultimately down to the person operating the machine, a machinist of limited skill and/or experiance will machine a single or multi angle seat/valve to the same quality. If a multi angle seat/valve assembly is machined properly ALL of the surfaces should touch and therefore seal. Many inexperianced machine shops do not even take into account valve guide eccentricity.



you port them the same way

This one you got right.



Because you got to cut a stock one angle two times to get 3 angles out of it. It reduces the stock sealing surface, Go use google.com and learn more.

As first reply.


Good luck with your rebuild.

AUSSIE900
24th May 2007, 09:41 AM
Interesting debate ...

Initially We have Raul talking about Engine rebuilding .. ( IS RAUL IS SERIOUS ,NO JOKE )

Then we see a series of BOLT ONS and claims of 2 HP not being worth a rebuilders effort , obviously copious amounts of engine spray paint is .

Personally I would have used the paint $ on Professional welder ... but I cant weld .

I found rather amusing , that the extra couple of HP wasnt worth a Serious Engine rebuilders time . Has anyone told that to the F1 team chiefs ? Just curious .

Then , I was to learn that 99.5 % of the posts I have read here are purely the uniformed opinions of inexperienced people who read Hot rod mags .. That saddened me , I have been working on engines for 30 odd years and thought I was gain still gaining valuable opinions from 1st hand experience .


I guess Raul has answered the questions , and to quote his original post .. ENOUGH said .. NO joke .
So along with Sonnet and many others who followed this thread , we wish you well with your *rebuild* Raul , NO JOKE :lol:

sonett1
25th May 2007, 10:06 AM
Here is a link into another part of my world, it's quite long, but read through it, paying attention to mattsav and pumaracing and comments about valve sizes and angles etc. http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=31290

And for Raul's benefit, these guys read the same hot rod magazines as i do :p .

jdmckay
31st May 2007, 06:59 PM
I decided to rebuild my old rack and pinion, I know it is a challange but am willing to risk it. Gates rebuilt kit 350810 costs only $25 so why not. It is not that hard, there is one seal that is hard to install and that is easy to damage, because it has to go over gear teeth and gets scratched, I hope I did not damage mine. Well see, am willing to gamble on it.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG (http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG)

took me 4 hours

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rackfinito.JPG

Hi Raul... I'm very interested in what it took to do this job. Could you describe in more detail, and/or tell me what tools you needed?

Did you install a steel sleeve in the bored out housing, as Jim describes (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=973583&postcount=6) here... or did you consider doing so?

Thanks.

jdmckay
31st May 2007, 07:03 PM
Its been shown that polishing ports is not necessary.

The "Porting and Polishing" Myth.
<snip>

Thanks a lot Marrrk... you've thoroughly reinforced my memory wasting huge $$ building a custom Honda 750 street bike screamer bak in the day. $12k I spent in '77. You've made me glad 2 know more details of my mal-appropriated $$. :roll:

Marrk
1st June 2007, 05:36 AM
Thanks a lot Marrrk... you've thoroughly reinforced my memory wasting huge $$ building a custom Honda 750 street bike screamer bak in the day. $12k I spent in '77. You've made me glad 2 know more details of my mal-appropriated $$. :roll:

Sorry Mate, (don't know whether you are thanking me or flaming me...

FWIW When I used to gas flow my Norton heads I'd sit patiently polishing the intake until mirror finish but leave exhaust port rough as its better so the carbon deposits have something to grip onto. This insulates the head in a small way from too much exhaust heat.

unkleG'sif
1st June 2007, 06:59 AM
Iíve been reading these project pages for while, some of them I like and some of them are just plain stock rebuilding jobs, has no place being posted here in the performance project section. Am Raul and am serious Saab fanatic,



ive only just gotton onto this comment.....

the whole point of the "Projects" thread, is exactly that, PROJECTS!
some projects are full on race spec, high performance preperations, some are nut and bolt restorations.... its neither mine nor your place to comment on what is or is not a "Project".... :nono;


remember some people may be spending more time, money, and effort doing a "Stock Rebuilding Job" than you are on yours :evil:


and the reason the Projects thread is in the performance and mods sub-forum, is clearly stated in the original thread... its so as not to clutter up the front page of the Forum

G

philb
1st June 2007, 07:26 AM
Yup. Having said that, if you feel the need to turn your project into a full on, NO JOKE, performance project, this website has the good stuff:

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

I wish I'd seen that site before ordering non cross-drilled brake lines ;)

RickyS
1st June 2007, 08:37 AM
I decided to rebuild my old rack and pinion, I know it is a challange but am willing to risk it. Gates rebuilt kit 350810 costs only $25 so why not. It is not that hard, there is one seal that is hard to install and that is easy to damage, because it has to go over gear teeth and gets scratched, I hope I did not damage mine. Well see, am willing to gamble on it.

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG (http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rckpinionr.JPG)

took me 4 hours

http://www.photodump.org/stored14/rackfinito.JPG

Like jdmckay, I am interested in your rack rebuild.

Have you any photos of the rebuild posted anywhere?

Matthew
1st June 2007, 09:11 AM
Like jdmckay, I am interested in your rack rebuild.
Ricky, if you have the Saab service manuals (my memory tells me that you do) then they cover the rack rebuild procedure in detail.

RickyS
1st June 2007, 09:55 AM
Ricky, if you have the Saab service manuals (my memory tells me that you do) then they cover the rack rebuild procedure in detail.

Correct. :D
But I find the Service Manual hard to follow sometimes. For instance, the photos I found of Dougsaab caliper rebuild were far more informative and easier to follow than the Service Manual (and I know the Sevice Manual has photos). The same applies to your excellent clutch replacement photos.

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
2nd June 2007, 02:18 AM
Hi Raul... I'm very interested in what it took to do this job. Could you describe in more detail, and/or tell me what tools you needed?

Did you install a steel sleeve in the bored out housing, as Jim describes (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=973583&postcount=6) here... or did you consider doing so?

Thanks.


Failure rate is high because the aluminum control valve housing gets worn and ruins the new seals. You don't really need any fancy special tools; they exist, and make it easier, but it's easy enough to find substitute tools.
Modern rebuilders install a steel sleeve in the bored out housing to create a new, durable sealing surface .


I don't think Jim ever did Saab rack. Control valve in Saab rack does not touch housing at all so it never gets worn. Control valve rides on a bearing and on teflon bushing, and seals are teflon too so they don't wear metal at all. Saab racks fail because the dust boot gets torn and when dirt goes inside and attaches to the shaft and there is a seal that cannot deal with dirt and dirt damages the seal and the rack leaks.
What Jim is talking about is GM racks they are notorious becuase iron valve rides on aluminum housing and wares it out thats why they bore the damaged part and put a sleeve in there.
Saab rack is easy to rebuild but one seal is very though to install, it is located deep inside but I figured out a way. I'll let you know if it leaks, engine will be in the car by the end of the month.

RickyS
2nd June 2007, 06:40 AM
I don't think Jim ever did Saab rack. Control valve in Saab rack does not touch housing at all so it never gets worn. Control valve rides on a bearing and on teflon bushing, and seals are teflon too so they don't wear metal at all. Saab racks fail because the dust boot gets torn and when dirt goes inside and attaches to the shaft and there is a seal that cannot deal with dirt and dirt damages the seal and the rack leaks.
What Jim is talking about is GM racks they are notorious becuase iron valve rides on aluminum housing and wares it out thats why they bore the damaged part and put a sleeve in there.
Saab rack is easy to rebuild but one seal is very though to install, it is located deep inside but I figured out a way. I'll let you know if it leaks, engine will be in the car by the end of the month.

I am confused :confused:

I have read elsewhere that the steering rack in a C900 is a GM rack - but you seem to indicate that it is not.

The rack in my C900 does not leak, but it suffers from early morning sickness - steering is stiff when engine is cold.

Can you enlighten us further?

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
2nd June 2007, 04:36 PM
I am confused :confused:

I have read elsewhere that the steering rack in a C900 is a GM rack - but you seem to indicate that it is not.

The rack in my C900 does not leak, but it suffers from early morning sickness - steering is stiff when engine is cold.

Can you enlighten us further?

I was talking about GM racks that are installed on GM cars, designes very from car to car but Saab rack is well made. You might have a steering wheel joint problem, it is the one that attaches to the rack, it is notorious for it to go very stiff, it loses it's lubrication over time and it is not servisable. Take WD40 and spray the joint and see if it gets any better if it does not then you got worn pump or rack has worn teflon seals.

RickyS
3rd June 2007, 06:14 AM
According to Shan there are 2 types of racks, one with cast iron spool housing and the other aluminium.

See http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=974003&postcount=9 and http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102605

Mine has the aluminium housing which is prone to early morning sickness. From the picture of your rack, it appears to be a LHD rack with a cast iron spool housing?

RickyS
8th June 2007, 05:05 AM
I had an '84 saab and it had cast iron housing so it seems that in UK they imported second hand cheap 8 valve LHD saabs with aluminum spool valve housings that suck.

Back to topic.

UK cars are RHD.

Both UK and USA cars have aluminium spool valve housings.

I too had a 1984 C900 for 14 years.IIRC it had aluminium spool valve housing, and I had no problem with the power steering. Sold it when it was 20 years old with near 190000 on clock.

My current car, a 1986 C900, now 20 years old, less than 90000 on clock, has aluminium spool valve housing, but suffers from early morning sickness.

Not all racks with aluminium spool valve housings suffer from early morning sickness, some last longer than others.

I read elsewhere that the aluminium racks were later replaced with racks with cast iron spool valve housings. Hence my question to Raul asking whether the rack he has rebuilt has cast iron spool valve housing.

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
13th August 2007, 02:07 PM
So far I have made a harness for my megasquirt management, I will have an extra option for boost control and water injection control via MS2. Haven't done much to the car because of the weather, waiting to cool down.

TheRedBaron
13th August 2007, 02:23 PM
So far I have made a harness for my megasquirt management, I will have an extra option for boost control and water injection control via MS2. Haven't done much to the car because of the weather, waiting to cool down.Welcome back!

Does MS2 allow for knock sensing and reaction?

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
13th August 2007, 04:01 PM
Welcome back!

Does MS2 allow for knock sensing and reaction?

Yes it does, it is new to the MS2 so not many people did it. You can actually use APC detecting from pin 19 and program MS2 to take 12v signal as knock detection. They are still writing software for extra MS2 features so we will see much more to come. They are writing MS2 extra software to be able to decode any hall effect wheel so we could use EZK wheel for ignition and use gutless distributor.

Saab-Daniel
13th August 2007, 04:11 PM
MS1 controls boost and senses knock...
Daniel.

amish_geek
13th August 2007, 04:59 PM
MS1 controls boost and senses knock...
Daniel.

But MS2 is no joke.

Saab-Daniel
13th August 2007, 05:12 PM
But MS2 is no joke.

Ohh no it's not.
You need to hook up the APC in MS one aswell, I'm running boost-control on MS1 now. Will move on to knock-sensing soon too...
Daniel.

Matthew
13th August 2007, 05:40 PM
You need to hook up the APC in MS one aswell
For the pin 19 knock signal to MS?

Saab-Daniel
13th August 2007, 06:00 PM
Remove 1 resistor in the apc, fit one resistor inside MS, hook up pin 19 to MS... Boom you're set...
Daniel.

El_Raul_Turbo_Freak
13th August 2007, 09:43 PM
MS1 controls boost and senses knock...
Daniel.

I was only talking about MS2.. The support is greater for MS1 sense it has been there for longer time. MS2 will have much more features and it is more expandable. They did not even reliese official MS2 Extra software, they are still working on 1.9 beta version. It is still beta. But when it comes out officialy it will have many options for MS2.

RickyS
14th August 2007, 06:32 AM
Welcome back.

Did that steering rack you rebuilt turn out OK?