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Intercooler is now available from ETS.

3K views 37 replies 14 participants last post by  Ryan33 
#1 ·
The intercooler that I came up with for the ng900 or 9-3 is now available through extremeturbosystems.com and it works great! The larger core like the one I have on my car is 24"x8"x3.5" and it does take some mild polishing of the end-tank welds or the inner crash bar to make it fit. Its a tight fit, but the core is huge and it works great. ETS will also sell a 3" core for people that want a direct bolt on with no polishing required. I like the better flowing 3.5" thick core, but some people like the ease of direct bolt-on.

You can check their website or call at 360-263-3748. They will be under 500.00 bucks and its a spearco style core with many fins per sq." Its supposed to support up to 550bhp and I have not had trouble with my car and gt3071 and 320whp and 356wtrq in Denver in the thin air. They also make the 9000 core and 9-5 core and its available through Nick at gs too:p

Here is a picture of the ic on the floor, it has nice folded back end-tanks to help fit behind the crash bar with its huge monster length core of 24". The inlet/outlet tubes are 2.5" for better flow and you can get the stock rubber hoses to go on them, just takes a little muscle;)

John
 
#3 ·
Its the cheapest one of its caliper out there;) Cheaper than gs and bigger and cheaper than the other name brand ic's out there.... Made in America. I think the former group 9 had them for close to 700.00 smackers...

Its a huge core with great efficiency... Many people were asking me about this ic last year when I helped ets come up with a ic for our cars that would be as long of a core as possible and as big of a core as possible without having to remove the ac. Some slight polishing to the inner crash bar, like 40 thousands and it will fit... Good flow, good efficiency...

John
 
#6 ·
ParaMedic_Saab said:
they dont have it listed on their website, only the 9-5 and 9000
Yea I know, that is why I am putting the word out they have quite a few of the 3.5" thick core ones ready to go at the same price as the 3" core and you just have to email jr or call them. Anyone interested in one only needs to call ets and inquire about the ic for ng900 and 9-3. They have the cast end-tanks for the 3.5" thick version ready to go and that is why the price is the same for either, but it might take a little longer to get a 3" thick core one as they would have to make the end tanks.

Not positive on the exact price, but its under 500.00, maybe some bargening room right now for the interductory release...

They are available now, just call and ask for one;)

John
 
#7 · (Edited)
Vigge said:
Hi, when you speak of great efficiency and great flow could you please try to atleast come up with one intake temp measurement during WOT ;)
They have almost the same flow rate and efficiency level of the 9k ic they offer from them or Nick at GS. The area is almost the same if you do the math and I have asked some of those questions, but JR usually just tells me what hp that ic will support and he said until I get above around 600-650bhp, the ic that I have now will support it just fine.

I should take some intake temps to see how well that it is doing. What would be the best way, one third gear wot pull on the road? Two pulls, three pulls?

I could get my multi-meter out and measure the voltage and compare it to the temps over ambiant.... I will try to gather some data soon.;)

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/Saab-9000-Intercoolers-and-Piping-Kit-Intercooler-Only/c7_97_101_102/p130/ETS-Saab-9000-Intercooler/product_info.html

John
 
#8 · (Edited)
John Z Williams said:
They have almost the same flow rate and efficiency level of the 9k ic they offer from them or Nick at GS. The area is almost the same if you do the math and I have asked some of those questions, but JR usually just tells me what hp that ic will support and he said until I get above around 600-650bhp, the ic that I have now will support it just fine.

I should take some intake temps to see how well that it is doing. What would be the best way, one third gear wot pull on the road? Two pulls, three pulls?

I could get my multi-meter out and measure the voltage and compare it to the temps over ambiant.... I will try to gather some data soon.;)

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/Saab-9000-Intercoolers-and-Piping-Kit-Intercooler-Only/c7_97_101_102/p130/ETS-Saab-9000-Intercooler/product_info.html

John
Honestly I hate the idea of bhp based IC rating because it just will not work, i.e the pre IC temps are far from same if you for instance whine the 15T to 300bhp or use a much bigger turbo for the job.
On the other hand you can also achieve any given level of bhp with inlet temp very close to abient temp or tens of degrees over it.

From ETS site:
It is this unique design that allows this ETS intercooler to attain an 82% efficiency rating. A 300 HP there is only a .75 psi drop! As well as being extremely efficient, these cores have a very high flow rate of 1080 CFM, allowing it to handle as much boost as the engine is configured withstand.

82% efficicecy stated, while the 200E China I have on the car can manage 90%+ For instance a longer WOT pull 100-230. Temp at start of the run +6C over ambient and at 230 16C over ambient. Effiency max = 94% and at 230 = 89%. In other words the temps what I have after a loooooooong WOT run are lower than many people see during cruise on highway with no load on the IC.
If the efficiency would be 82% the temps would be >10C higher after the IC than they are now.

If you choose to test temps, one longer WOT pull is enough to show how the IC is working. If temps start to raise with a steeper slope as soon as boost comes on the IC is not doing its job too well.

Recently I run across IC from one manufacturer which where supposed to be top of the line and so where the general comments, but once put to the test
they sucked big time when compared to a same size core from another manufacturer.
 
#9 ·
You are right about the different ways to test a ic, what turbo you have, what boost you are running, what speed or airflow do you have over the ic, how much of the core is in the good airstream, many variables to consider.
The pressure drop is hard to measure as there is no set pressure that ic sellers set to test them at. A .5psi drop might be at 10psi or 15psi, at least he gives the pressure drop at what psi its tested at.

No question your core is doing a good job, but its much bigger and you had to either remove your ac dryer to get it to fit or illiminate the strength of the crash bar to make it fit.

If I wanted to remove my ac or notch out my crash bar so that a core of your size would fit on my car, I would get a core as big as yours. This core fits in the stock location with ac with just some simple polishing of the welds on the end tanks to make it fit. Crash bar intact and full strength, ac system intact.

Jr has a lot of data on ic's for the dsm guys, evos and many other cars and has even done some testing in Denver to show the 15% loss in ic efficiency in the less dense air. It seems as though he has done his homework and has come up with some of the best cores that are available and feels they are only rivaled by Spearco and other top brand name ic cores.

What I do know is even with my power and less dense air of Denver, can be 11,000" density altitude in the summer, the core is still good for around 5 wot pulls before I start to notice any heat-soaking and dumping of boost...

John
 
#10 ·
John Z Williams said:
If I wanted to remove my ac or notch out my crash bar so that a core of your size would fit on my car, I would get a core as big as yours. This core fits in the stock location with ac with just some simple polishing of the welds on the end tanks to make it fit. Crash bar intact and full strength, ac system intact.
what can you say, there is a time every now and then in the path of tuning, where the plug & play based thinking does not lead to the best option what the the money can buy. It is the same it other componets as well, if they do not fit, you make room for the them by relocating the parts with help of other parts (turbo vs. manifold etc.) Also keep in mind that when you "block" the rear of the crassh bar with a big IC, you're preventing the "system" from working as designed in the factory if crash happends and therefore I dont see too big a a trade-off if you trim it.
 
#12 ·
comtrang said:
Man...All this talk about intercoolers yet I still haven't found a clear cut answer on an ebay intercooler's worth. So...since it's the general topic, should I or should I not invest in one?
As long as the real measured data is not rolling in you're relying on someones rear when you validate IC's which are available to saab.

Personally can speak of my car and it cheepo China made IC (just like ebay ones) and it works wonders. Have yet seen a saab with any of the high price IC's from various saab tuners to match the efficiency of it.
 
#13 ·
Its been discussed so much, all the benifits have been talked about over and over. A little more hp, but the main reason to go to a larger bar and plate ic is efficiency, the ability to have power longer.

Viggen ic is good for one to two pulls on a stage 3. An ic like mine is good for 5 pulls or more on a stage 3 and its still good for 5wot pulls on my stage 6 with gt3071 turbo.

If you want to be able to have your power longer and a little better spool-up, get one, if you only get on it every now and then and only for one wot pull. Maybe not worth it for you...:cool:

John
 
#14 · (Edited)
The Cores for the ETS, the JSP, Forge, MP, and Ebay IC's are all basically the same. You can get a very good bar & plate IC Core that will perform well from any of these places.

The biggest difference is the ease of install, and the end tank design.

You have to give & take.

The "made for Saab" intercoolers sacrifice End Take design (poor flowing end tanks) in order to get them to fit mostly stock cars without much modification to the body of the car.

The Ebay el-cheapo intercoolers have decent end tank designs that flow nicely, but then you need to work to get a piping situation where you route your pipes, and it's a bit more difficult of an install. You might have to cut into your crash bar, or remove your A/C.


It is no use to argue performance numbers here because there is no hard data to support it. Vigge has numbers for his IC. I'm not sure if John has the data for his IC yet or not.


But all arguments aside, for anyone going with a Stage 3-4 setup from any tuner (~270-300bhp) will benefit from ANY intercooler that is larger than stock. It all depends on if you want to pay big bucks for an easy install, or save money and spend a couple hours figuring out where to route your pipes.



[EDIT] All of the "Made for Saab" IC's say thay have well flowing "CORES". Yes, the Bar & Plate core flows well. But the End tank design is poor.
 
#15 ·
I would agree with most of what you said except that you did not mention the length of the tubing is important and the amount of bends is important. I feel the less than ideal end tank design is more than made up for by the shorter distance in piping and especially the amount of bends in a system like yours.

You must have an additional 4- 90* bends and 90* is a hard turn. I have no 90* turns in my set-up and I bet its 3' shorter than yours...

Many seem to say the types of cores do vary and a 3.5" thick core flows better than a 3" core and some of them like the forge until probably flows well, but I wonder how efficient it is.

I want an ic that not only flows decent, but also is hard to heat soak as I race and wind my car to 7k through 4 gears. I could not get 2 pulls out of the viggen core at stage 3 level...

John
 
#16 ·
amish_geek said:
But all arguments aside, for anyone going with a Stage 3-4 setup from any tuner (~270-300bhp) will benefit from ANY intercooler that is larger than stock. It all depends on if you want to pay big bucks for an easy install, or save money and spend a couple hours figuring out where to route your pipes.
sadly this assumption cant be stated. I have recently looked into a few cars where the new big shiny, state of the art after market IC has not performed any better in term of efficiency than the stock IC. Of course the flow of the core is most likely better but, if temps raise as rapidly during WOT as they do with std IC, I could care less about the flow.
 
#18 ·
Vigge said:
sadly this assumption cant be stated. I have recently looked into a few cars where the new big shiny, state of the art after market IC has not performed any better in term of efficiency than the stock IC. Of course the flow of the core is most likely better but, if temps raise as rapidly during WOT as they do with std IC, I could care less about the flow.
What bar & plate aftermarket intercooler does not perform better than stock?
 
#20 ·
What about getting more air to the IC. I know a huge cutout in the front air dam would work, like all those civics i see running around. (with no need for an intercooler) also what about the air xiting the back of the cooler, is there a way to vent that out, ie speed up the airflow over the fins?
 
#21 ·
PETER SAABER said:
What about getting more air to the IC. I know a huge cutout in the front air dam would work, like all those civics i see running around. (with no need for an intercooler) also what about the air xiting the back of the cooler, is there a way to vent that out, ie speed up the airflow over the fins?
Drove some test without bumper to see what kind of difference it makes, since I have about half of the core hidden behind the bumper. In my case the difference was inanomous. The vig has a quit good opening, so the above may not apply to other models with different bumpers.
 
#22 ·
Vigge said:
depens how you define a "pull"?
In my books the viggen IC with stage III is inadequate even for on little longer pull.

Here is why, ambient +18C. 70C, i.e over 50C over abient before the end of forth gear. Draw you conclusions from it.:cheesy:
Wow, not even one full long wot pull in 4th gear... That says it all I guess. I do know if I wound out second gear with my stage 3 and viggen ic, it would spike to good boost in third gear and immediately start to dump boost and be well below my 20psi of normal runs and be in the 15psi and dropping fast...

Its all about the ability to run your boost and have your power longer. I need at least 4-5 wot pulls to make me happy...:p

John
 
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